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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 20, 2021 17:16:53 GMT
Macro ratios are irrelevant. The body makes ketones whenever net calories slips below maintenance level. This can be accomplished by eating mostly carbs (like Clarence Bass). It can be accomplished by eating mostly fat. Or, the body can go into ketosis by eating mostly protein.
Choose your favorite macro combo (I like potatoes and beans) ratio or just eat one type of food, say fruit, for example. It does not matter what the macro ratios are or what macros you choose - even fast food will work if you can stick to it - what MATTERS and determines ketosis is, if your NET CALORIES are BELOW your body's maintenance level. From what I've read, if the net calories are restricted below maintenance for about 36 hours, it is ketogenic, but I'd guess this would be determined by how active you are during the period of calorie restriction.
It's a simple fact that has been made complicated and very lucrative by dieting rip-off artists .................................
................................. If you want to be in ketosis, eat less calories than you burn.
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captkronos
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Post by captkronos on Nov 20, 2021 17:42:07 GMT
The more important part to me is that I FEEL so much better without carbs, like I’m on crack compared to a normal high carb diet. I feel younger and move better with more energy. The fuel you put in you machine matters.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 20, 2021 17:52:13 GMT
Sure, eat the way you like, the way you feel best. I'm only saying that "Keto" is not a magic diet with special macro ratios or specific foods. It is a result of supplying the body with less net calories than is needed for maintenance. However you achieve that will work just fine.
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Nov 20, 2021 18:47:57 GMT
Sure, eat the way you like, the way you feel best. I think eating based on personal short term effects is wise. Long term effects are pretty hard to predict.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 21, 2021 2:20:24 GMT
Another thing about ketosis, it is not an on/off thing. The body is constantly burning calories and moving between ketosis and not. If you stay in continual ketosis for too long, you'll start burning up muscle, not fat, due to lack of calories. This stuff is about as simple as it gets. You can check for times during the day when you're in or out of ketosis with test strips from the drug store. I expect you'll find that before you eat your first bite in the morning, you'll be in ketosis. Ever hear of "keto breath"? We used to call it "morning breath". This is why IF works. It is calorie restriction/keto.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 21, 2021 2:41:08 GMT
I used to believe the Burning-Fat-Man-Jimmy-Moore hype about a mystical special magic "keto" diet with obsessively defined ratios of fat-to-carb-to-protein until Fat Jake and TR presented some common sense. If you overeat net calories above maintenance level, no matter the source or ratios, you're NOT in ketosis.
IMO, meat and potatoes (no gravy, butter, oils, etc) is one of the best keto diets going, as long as portions/calories are under control.
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moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Nov 21, 2021 3:41:12 GMT
A serving of potatoes is absurd & no fats from oils or butter is deliberately sabotaging ur aim of what a ketogenic diet is all about.
The ratios are supposed to be 65-70% fats, 20% protein & 10-15% carbs. IME, carbs are racked up from the condiments mixed up with the food to make it more palatable.
I know a little about keto as it was used as a primary intervention growing up as a kid. Keto is not just for epilepsy. They use it with ASD too for behavioral issues. These days, I'm mostly fucked up on drugs. BOOYAH!
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 21, 2021 11:01:45 GMT
I'm assuming that the diet is healthy, with only real food that does not contain any, factory processed "food", condiments, flavorings, candy, cereals, etc. No refined sugars. No cereal grains. No Froot Loops, Sugar Pops, etc.
My comment about fast food was meant more as a joke and not intended toward those who have exceptional sensitivities (such as you mention) to refined, non-cellular sugars and processed frankenfoods. Maintaining a calorie restricted (ketogenic) diet using fast food would be theoretically possible, but I doubt anyone could do it due to the intentionally designed & manufactured addictive nature of factory "foods" that intentionally contain addictive sugars, grains and chemicals.
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Post by gruntbrain on Nov 21, 2021 12:40:43 GMT
Paging Penn Jillette
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 21, 2021 13:32:51 GMT
Most people I've read or heard think that "keto", a diet that causes the body to swing into ketosis, is the same as HFLC (high fat, low carb). It is not. HFLC is a macro limiting diet in its own right and has certain generally accepted percentages attached to it. Yes, HFLC will produce a ketogenic state, if net calories are below maintenance, but so will HCLF, or any other macro combination of real food that one may choose.
What people are confusing as THE "Keto Diet" is nothing more than a HFLC diet. However, to call a HFLC diet "keto" is an unnecessary and misleading substitution of terms that is only good for confusion and making money on another magic diet fad that has taken a result of net calorie restriction (ketosis) and applied it to an exclusive, single, rigid, anal, obsessive, percentage combination of macros that, when eaten at below maintenance calorie requirements, produce ketosis just like any other diet that under-eats net calories. The safest and most healthful way to produce ketosis (calorie restriction) may be fasting, but as long as net calories are under maintenance level for sufficient time, the body is in ketosis. It's biology. Ketosis cannot be prevented when net calories are held below the body's need.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Nov 21, 2021 14:03:15 GMT
Just to add to this discussion and the one Mr.P and myself have had: www.webmd.com/diabetes/type-1-diabetes-guide/what-is-ketosis#1 As I told Mr.P most info that I have found is what Moxohol mentions. On the second page on that link it says, "But when You cut way back on calories or carbs, your body will switch to ketosis for energy". I apologize if that link is not what some would consider their go to site. I found something else when I type in, " Can you get into ketosis just eating low carbs". The only problem is I couldn't find the link for it, so I'll right it out. "Keto does work without a calorie deficit, meaning you can get into nutritional ketosis without a negative energy balance. However, you can not lose weight on keto without without being in a calorie deficit because for weight loss to occur body needs to burn more calories than it consumes." I get what Mr.P is trying to say. But if someone wants to call it a keto diet it doesn't not bother me either way. Just like the way someone trains, if it's working for You I'm happy for You.
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lardy
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Post by lardy on Nov 21, 2021 14:34:41 GMT
Interesting, what is advertised as keto (HFLC) is the worst diet for me, people might feel more energetic without carbs, I'm the total opposite on the "Keto" diet I was constipated, sluggish,, indigestion/heartburn, heavy and unsatisfied with my meals.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Nov 21, 2021 15:03:44 GMT
Interesting, what is advertised as keto (HFLC) is the worst diet for me, people might feel more energetic without carbs, I'm the total opposite on the "Keto" diet I was constipated, sluggish,, indigestion/heartburn, heavy and unsatisfied with my meals. I tried it and did it for a long. To add to what You said, no endurance and didn't lose weight. And yes I was in a calorie deficit. For myself, a diet like that is ok short term for reasons like sugar addiction, which I used it for, and a reset.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 21, 2021 15:13:11 GMT
Interesting, what is advertised as keto (HFLC) is the worst diet for me, people might feel more energetic without carbs, I'm the total opposite on the "Keto" diet I was constipated, sluggish,, indigestion/heartburn, heavy and unsatisfied with my meals. High ketones produce a condition called, "Ketoacidosis". Also brings brain fog and even death. Here's a much safer way to produce both ketosis (net calorie restriction) and have energy; Penn Jillette - the Potato Hack. If we want to label the mis-labeled "keto" diet of the specific ratio mix of fat:carb:protein, accurately, we'd call it " The Epileptic Diet" ..... which is what I will be calling it from now. It's a diet for that condition, not a fat loss/weight loss diet and is dangerous and detrimental (as lardy points out) for people to just engage with on a whim, but hey, it sells books $$$$$$$$$$$$$ ........ cuz, let's face it, "The Epileptic Diet" just ain't a very sexy title for the diet fad gurus!
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Post by gruntbrain on Nov 21, 2021 15:51:18 GMT
Retailers like Costco are exploiting the Keto phenomenon with questionable products.
There are many "flavors" of Keto including Vegan Keto. Hence, if you want to experiment with Keto , try different versions.
Macadamia nuts are popular addition to many Keto versions(90% fat calories) .
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