TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Jan 18, 2022 14:04:40 GMT
Great genetics but the old timers had all kinds of silly BS in their pamphlets that has since been dispelled and doesn't hold up to objective science. Promises and false hope have sold everything from the old timer pamphlets to bodybuilding rags to protein powders to 'anabolic' supplements. The spin and false promises from days of yore was simply that.
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jonrock
Caneguru
Rock-a-hula
Posts: 971
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Biceps
Jan 18, 2022 22:35:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by jonrock on Jan 18, 2022 22:35:27 GMT
Great genetics but the old timers had all kinds of silly BS in their pamphlets that has since been dispelled and doesn't hold up to objective science. Promises and false hope have sold everything from the old timer pamphlets to bodybuilding rags to protein powders to 'anabolic' supplements. The spin and false promises from days of yore was simply that. I talk about maxalding, no bs there. Zass brochure, the same. A few others, genuine too. Others, Sandow in particular, are laughable.
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jonrock
Caneguru
Rock-a-hula
Posts: 971
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Post by jonrock on Jan 18, 2022 23:17:29 GMT
Genetics? There is no way to predict exact measurements, work capacity on different days, structure load-bearing potential, etc... Just look at Maxick, Alan Mead, Billy Ralph, Hack, Zass, etc...they trained and polished each muscle, particularly Maxick, as anyone can read in the Maxalding lessons. Old timers developed their strength as much as they could. Period. Whatever works, works. If bodypart develops your strength/looks more, then it is good. If isos ala Zass works and you like it, then it is good. The same with every kind of exercise, unless your health is compromised, of course. Show me anyone shirtless as ripped and well developed as Maxick, as strong as him, then you tell me about "predictions". These guys did not care about such things, they developed themselves with no preconceived idea which determined their own process and fate, they discovered within. Genetics are an excellent tool or foundation to help anyone determine their outcome. Short muscle bellies are one factor...muscle fibers are another. Slow twitch individuals aren't going to do perform as well as those with fast twitch. No different than diet and the affect on your health whether it is heart or cancer. Regarding each of those individuals you named? There were a handful of people, but at the end of the day it was genetics. The other part was -- sorry -- hype and claims rarely validated. Strength historians including David Gentle, Terry Todd and even decades ago Alan Calvert, if I recall, dissected the claims and at the end of the day, we find out they were all about selling their courses -- no different than the snake oil salesmen of the muscle rags (and now websites). Regardless, how many people replicated Maxick's physique? Or any of the others you named? "Old timers developed their strength as much as they could. Period." That is one claim. Remember Gordon Anderson/Andy62's claims? He repeatedly swore up and down Maxick, Bobby Pandour, et al, built their physiques simply by contracting, flicking, twitching their muscles. Then people dug up other documents where they talked about these guys lifting or putting people on their shoulders and going up and down stairs in their gyms. Gyms? What gyms...I thought Maxick did dynamic resistance. Oh, they did gyms to "test" their strength -- same tale we hear from Chuck Atlas. Atlas -- same guy who claimed he casually ran 6:00/mile for ten miles over sand dunes. "Show me anyone shirtless as ripped and well developed as Maxick, as strong as him, then you tell me about "predictions". These guys did not care about such things, they developed themselves with no preconceived idea which determined their own process and fate, they discovered within." Not sure this is what we're talking about. If you enjoy training and want to give strength training a shot, have at it. But being pragmatic about your potential will go a long way in terms of reducing frustration, getting injured. "The Mountain", with his genetics, will never run like an elite marathoner nor will the latter ever stand a chance of getting as strong as the Mountain, even with steroids, HGH, insulin, etc. Then show us exactly what those genetics are. All of them, I am curious. Could you show us a picture (I mean exact measurements, strength levels, pulse rate, everything) of the actualized potential of anyone? What would you need exactly to predict all of that? Regarding the claims of some old timers: Maxick, Aston and Zass are the real deal (as others). See the official records regulated by authorities, the videos, etc...read their books and articles. What others lied about do not discredit the true bona fide guys. I dont care about Gordon's claims, historians and their mothers, I just care about the truth. And yes, the guys I talk about developed their strength: Maxick, Zass, Aston, Hack...it is not my claim, it is facts. Alan Mead sure had a different structure, insertions, etc than Hack (a monster, look at his enormous thorax). It is simple: each had a different physique due to his genetic potential, both developed such strength and looks due to their efforts. They did not trust some guru who had never seen them in the flesh who could predict ther future. Would you trust a guy who has never seen you and told you to fuck mondays and thursdays at a low intensity and fridays full on? Based on what? Then your girl, on a tuesday, tells you she is going to do "that" which turns you on so much but you tell her that mr guru-know-it-all says not to fuck on tuesdays AND also only 1 day a week full throttle. You know what would happen? That she would leave, just as the best version you could ever be leaves the picture for trusting whoever says not to bust your ass. They had fabulous looks and fabulous strength because they busted their asses. No effort, no nothing. Life is not a 10 steps process, the most interesting individuals discover and do.
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Post by BigBruvOfEnglandUK on Jan 19, 2022 5:54:40 GMT
If that first one is a genuine photo, those abs are incredible! It's a colorised photo. It's what they used to do in the old days. I found two photos of my dad taken in the early 60's. One was in colour and the other was in black and white but they were the same pic. The black and white one had hair and eye colour written on the back for the clouriser to work from.
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carlson
Caneguru
Jabroni
Posts: 445
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Post by carlson on Jan 19, 2022 7:05:11 GMT
If that first one is a genuine photo, those abs are incredible! It's a colorised photo. It's what they used to do in the old days. I found two photos of my dad taken in the early 60's. One was in colour and the other was in black and white but they were the same pic. The black and white one had hair and eye colour written on the back for the clouriser to work from. Always wanted to be a 'clouriser' when I left borstal. I think it was the exotic mental pictures the word 'clouriser' conjured up in my bonce, and how it roles off the tongue. Such a lyrical, melodious word. Hohoho jabroni
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Post by BigBruvOfEnglandUK on Jan 19, 2022 8:03:14 GMT
POF!
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
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Biceps
Jan 19, 2022 17:40:55 GMT
Post by Michael on Jan 19, 2022 17:40:55 GMT
Serious questions. Pierini and I believe Stuke have been doing chins/pullups and dips for years. Pierini has no arm development. I know of other people in the past that did these exercises with no arm size or development. I've experimented with this myself and actually lost an inch on my arms. I've always felt dips in my chest and pullups/chins in my back. Why do You think this is? Because of my own experience and where I feel the exercises working I always had a hard time believing these are the only two exercises I need. I would say steroids and genetics could make any exercise work. Maybe it's the way the exercise is done? No slam on Pierini, but from his videos he appears to be an ectomorph. His small calves and upper arms along with wrists seem to support this guess and if that is the case, he's not going to see a whole lot. (Think about Greg Newton complaining weights never developed his upper arms -- well, if you look at his videos, his triceps and biceps were clearly short...what Jones was referring to all those years ago. So it wasn't the weights, it was his genetics....just what you're stuck with thanks to mom and dad. I'm not a lot whole lot better off.) On chins and dips, maybe the exercises didn't work for you based on your build or hand placement? Only guessing as I did V-bar dips for years until we moved and I haven't had a place to re-install the dip rack, but for me it did a great job. But, think it was you who told me about the Skinny-Fat site where that guy dropped his weight training, switched to push ups (diamond/close hand placement) and wide grip chins. Geeze, what a difference that made. And the guy who hosts the Old School Cals website -- IMHO his whole upper body looks way better after he switched from weight training and focused on pushups, dips, chins, etc. I appreciate Your response, very good one. Thanks. I won't use genetics or an exercise the doesn't work what others say it does as an excuse for myself. Yeah maybe my genetics might stop me from getting bigger but that's not something I'm after. But I still try to improve on things that are important to me no matter what. I use bodyweight, KBs, DBs, and bands. I personally will never believe that any type of exercise is magic or will automatically hurt You. If someone does sensible stuff, that's fun, and don't act like they are 20 years old You should be good. Beating Your body to death is always a bad recipe. You don't have to kill Yourself to improve. Texas, what Old School Cals website are You talking about?
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carlson
Caneguru
Jabroni
Posts: 445
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Post by carlson on Jan 21, 2022 0:18:30 GMT
No slam on Pierini, but from his videos he appears to be an ectomorph. His small calves and upper arms along with wrists seem to support this guess and if that is the case, he's not going to see a whole lot. (Think about Greg Newton complaining weights never developed his upper arms -- well, if you look at his videos, his triceps and biceps were clearly short...what Jones was referring to all those years ago. So it wasn't the weights, it was his genetics....just what you're stuck with thanks to mom and dad. I'm not a lot whole lot better off.) On chins and dips, maybe the exercises didn't work for you based on your build or hand placement? Only guessing as I did V-bar dips for years until we moved and I haven't had a place to re-install the dip rack, but for me it did a great job. But, think it was you who told me about the Skinny-Fat site where that guy dropped his weight training, switched to push ups (diamond/close hand placement) and wide grip chins. Geeze, what a difference that made. And the guy who hosts the Old School Cals website -- IMHO his whole upper body looks way better after he switched from weight training and focused on pushups, dips, chins, etc. I appreciate Your response, very good one. Thanks. I won't use genetics or an exercise the doesn't work what others say it does as an excuse for myself. Yeah maybe my genetics might stop me from getting bigger but that's not something I'm after. But I still try to improve on things that are important to me no matter what. I use bodyweight, KBs, DBs, and bands. I personally will never believe that any type of exercise is magic or will automatically hurt You. If someone does sensible stuff, that's fun, and don't act like they are 20 years old You should be good. Beating Your body to death is always a bad recipe. You don't have to kill Yourself to improve. Texas, what Old School Cals website are You talking about? Get with the program, michael, he means:https://oldschoolcalisthenics.com/
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carlson
Caneguru
Jabroni
Posts: 445
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Post by carlson on Jan 21, 2022 0:19:44 GMT
Any man who calls himself Adorian is a but of a narcissist if you ask me.
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Biceps
Jan 21, 2022 4:45:50 GMT
Post by BigBruvOfEnglandUK on Jan 21, 2022 4:45:50 GMT
Nobody is asking you, Carol m8.
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
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Post by Michael on Jun 5, 2022 15:57:54 GMT
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Post by gruntbrain on Jun 5, 2022 17:57:11 GMT
Fine, fine but friends don't let friends skip leg day
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Post by gruntbrain on Jun 5, 2022 19:59:22 GMT
Where's the leg bicep thread?
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brothersteve
Caneguru
He ain't heavy, he's my brother
Posts: 2,257
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Post by brothersteve on Jun 6, 2022 22:27:41 GMT
Great videos! I am guilty of over training biceps - my bad. Video is a good reminder of doing slower (pos. & neg. both same slowness) reps, I need to do this. One of fav., supposedly natural arms pics is of Melvin Wells. Always liked the peaks of him, Beckles, and Coe. cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Melvin_Wells_Arm_Shot.jpg
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
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Post by Michael on Jun 7, 2022 20:51:18 GMT
Where's the leg bicep thread? That's the next thread I'll start.
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