denis
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Post by denis on Jun 5, 2020 2:09:23 GMT
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captkronos
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Post by captkronos on Jun 5, 2020 2:33:23 GMT
Big Money on the Left is behind this insurrection. They've been waiting for something to use to manipulate the young and dumb Starbucks terrorists. "How can we get black folks to come out and vote for this 80 yr old white Joe Biden we're stuck with?". Any idiot can connect the dots. They did the same thing 4 years ago leading up to the election, but it failed and the black vote did not materialize for Hillary "kankles" Clinton, then the riots mysteriously vanished after the election. We have had to endure an open coup on a duly elected President for the last 4 years, the full power of the espionage machine used to spy on him, create false narratives, and attempt to sabotage him before and after his election. I would pull up a lawnchair and pop the popcorn just to watch these Leftist scum swing from a lamp post.
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denis
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Post by denis on Jun 5, 2020 2:55:02 GMT
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 5, 2020 3:15:52 GMT
Except that there would not be 250 million Americans to count on as a base for recruitment in armed resistance against the govt. America has been neatly cut in half by the Game of Partisanship. It therefore is deeply divided on other important matters as well. You could hardly expect insurgents to be able to melt back into their cities when half of said city was sympathetic to the govt.
And every day we see articles written by those on both "sides" drumming up criticism of the other, often exaggerated but also often fixed in the minds of sympathetic readers. Yes it's true, the average deer hunter with a .308 could make things very difficult for a platoon of soldiers, but what of more modern sniper rifles like the Barrett .50 that can stand off over 1000 yards and hit targets with accuracy and disable light military vehicles that might be used by the armed resistance ? The guy with the .308 would probably get no warning that his position had been fixed and a sniper team set up ready to take him out. Of course, Barretts are in the hands of civilians as well, America being the Land Of The Gun, but not in the quantity able to be fronted by the military, surely. The weapons of the American Revolution were effective for sure, maybe in some cases today as well. But they were not nearly as advanced as today's variety of mayhem-makers.
And don't think that military commanders and presidents would shy away from the bombing of cities if they thought it became necessary. Nixon and his bombing of Hanoi, and of course the WW2 destruction by bombing and firestorms did not take into account any sympathy for the innocent civilian inhabitants.
And would the millions of former soldiers in the US all join the "insurgents" ? I think not. Many will remain "loyal" and go with their former employers.
The starving of supply lines works both ways.
The sheer number of people in the US today would be quite different from those former days of revolution. And the one thing that stands out over all else. The Americans and their supporters in Vietnam were not in their own countries. The Russians weren't either. Both the Americans and the Russians thought they could win by superior fire-power and blanket destruction, and in numbers of enemy casualties, it worked up to a point. But it alienated the population against the ones that had come to "liberate" and "free" the inhabitants, and in Vietnam especially, caused destruction that is still being felt today with children born deformed, and cancer victims from Agent Orange, and people getting their legs blown off by mines still live.
Any civil war in the US is a war fought on both sides by inhabitants, one way or the other.
Perhaps that is one of the secret agendas of the US armed forces when they engage in so many military exercises on home ground ?
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jonrock
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Post by jonrock on Jun 5, 2020 6:21:40 GMT
Macky, in Spain is the same. Right or left, any other way fries most people's brains. The elites are not left ir right, they are from another "branch"...
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 5, 2020 9:52:45 GMT
Quite right. jonrock. All this has gone far beyond any black police killing protest. It was evident from the start that at least some of it was organised protest and there were probably professional turn-up crowds employed to swell the numbers. Whether they stayed non-violent or not it may be hard to tell.
But when the violence started it became evident that besides common thugs acting relatively independently or in small groups, other entities were taking advantage of the situation to cause trouble. I believe those entities include the group TR spoke of, and far right factions as well.
It seems right now that any number of reasons could be at the root of all the troubles, opportunists, those who are out to smash for any excuse, anti-authority (police) activists, blacks, whites, political groups, some overtly violent, some dragged into the chaos. I also believe that financial inequality and the plundering of the work-force has a lot to do with it as well.
The Occupy Wall Street highlighted the "2% owning 40%" of the wealth in America, and as I've mentioned, the ones that ultimately benefit from shopping their company's jobs out to foreign countries are only a small group of directors and major share-holders, while the rest either have to be satisfied with the peanuts if they still have a job, or face the sale of their house if their job was taken off them and given to China, Mexico, or India. Whole towns have lost their guts (here too) when the company that the town surrounded packed up and left through "restructuring" or centralization.
In the 40's, we saw the failure of national socialism and fascism, in the 90 we witnessed the failure of communism in the USSR, both extreme right and left wing political regimes.
Perhaps we are now the observers to the failure of rampant capitalism and its excessive financial elevation of a mere few over the bulk of the population.
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Jun 5, 2020 22:50:16 GMT
Perhaps we are now the observers to the failure of rampant capitalism and its excessive financial elevation of a mere few over the bulk of the population. 2.5 MILLION jobs added in the month of May and a surge in the stock market despite a pandemic and rioting. Hardly a failure of "rampant capitalism". www.wsj.com/articles/global-stock-markets-dow-update-06-05-2020-11591331442
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 6, 2020 0:43:18 GMT
Perhaps we are now the observers to the failure of rampant capitalism and its excessive financial elevation of a mere few over the bulk of the population. 2.5 MILLION jobs added in the month of May and a surge in the stock market despite a pandemic and rioting. Hardly a failure of "rampant capitalism". www.wsj.com/articles/global-stock-markets-dow-update-06-05-2020-115913314421% owns 38.6% 5% owns 65.1% 10% owns 77.1% 90% owns 22.9% Is that even remotely balanced, through 300+ million people ? Around 55% of Americans invest in the stock market. That can range from the largest investors down to many minimum-amount investors who are encouraged to invest in their own company they work for. Which of course is a good thing. But that doesn't stop them from losing their jobs when their jobs no longer exist, either through technological progress, or shopping out their jobs to foreign countries. And their investment most likely will be sold at that point. No sense in hanging onto a $5k shareholding that pays a few percent dividend each year when the mortgage repayments are piling up due to job-income loss. Surges in the American stock market could easily be caused by foreign investment. It's easy for people in NZ to invest in US shares, for example. That doesn't mean the American local economy benefits necessarily, or that American wage-earners are boosting the share market by increased investment. At the last, the bulk of company shares are owned by a few, usually the directors themselves which ensures their control of the company, the rest being held by thousands of small investors that serve to provide the still substantial finance that the company needs to continue its operations. At the AGM, those small investors are almost invariably going to say "yes" to anything the directors and CEO are "proposing" to them, as required by company law in general, and when the company profits, those small investors receive a small percent dividend on their investment, according to the company's directors, NOT a stated percentage as in debentures etc. The directors meanwhile will award themselves all sorts of bonuses dressed up as "incentive payments" etc as well as their own shares' dividends. And if the company goes backrupt, the small investors are the last to get anything at all out of it, if anything. The banks, other large lenders, 1st charge debenture holders (if they're lucky) come first, and in the meantime the CEO and directors have made sure they've come out of it okay. Even their annual bonuses awarded to themselves saved up over the years will carry them for a very long time. If they had to. That's rampant capitalism. It's simply greed in any man's language, legally jacked up to benefit the few, over the bulk of the population. I'm not saying the directors and CEO shouldn't get a bit more than the average factory worker. Far from it. But the way the dice is loaded for the few at the top is demonstrated by those percentages above, and the influence this has on the govt, especially the US govt, is there for all who would see.
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Jun 6, 2020 8:50:59 GMT
Compare "the poor" in the USA to the poor in the undeveloped world and then compare the opportunities both have in their respective countries. I don't see any caravans of people forming up to exit the USA.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 6, 2020 9:46:50 GMT
Yes I certainly agree there deuce. But the people in and from those countries are used to having grinding poverty in their countries for generations, whether they are experiencing it or not themselves. Not that they like it, but it's par for the course to them.
Whatever our countries have to offer, it's a darn sight better than what many of them back in their homelands could ever hope for.
But when you have a so-called civilized industrial nation like America or New Zealand, one should expect that all citizens be looked after when jobs are taken from them, or simply disappear due to technology taking over, or business change of some sort. And here in NZ that is essentially carried out through a welfare system that will keep most going until they either get another job, or train for a different one.
In fact, able bodied men and women are required to undergo job training and take part-time jobs as they come up, supplementing their welfare income with the temp job, and if they can't through sickness of some sort, required to submit a doctor's certificate every three months. The only ones out on the street here are druggies and alcoholics generally.
As far as I know, there are no billionaires in New Zealand, and the poor are not so poor. Things are not equal, but the gap between the haves and have-nots is not as wide. On the other hand, since 1984 here where many govt departments were privatized and sold off, the "market forces" economy has rendered a great percentage of New Zealanders working for rent money with one wage, and the other wage of the other spouse working for food etc.
Along with the wages being driven down, cheap goods from China etc ruining the clothing and shoe industries, centralization of milk processing (for example) rendering small towns almost empty with houses being sold for a tenth of their market value anywhere else, the rise of rampant capitalism has almost cleared the country of the "middle class" and reduced once-well paying jobs to subsistence levels that require both parents to work. Well-paying jobs are by individual contract and require renewing every so often, and there have been cases where the job has been made "redundant" to get rid of a NZ national, then reopened under a new job description in order to hire an immigrant who will do virtually the same job for less pay.
All those things are direct attacks on the family unit, where kids are left for long periods after school by themselves, while mom and dad are out working to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. There will be a large number of families that will never own their own house, and there are many of those that have lost their houses when their jobs were taken from them or made redundant that will never own a house again in their lives. Forever renting from then on.
With that sort of thing continuing, there will eventually be a greater number of poor, with many turning to crime such as drug pushing to get some dollars. When you have rampant capitalistic inequality, you have more crime.
That's where I favour a combined moderate socialism with moderate capitalism, just like we had once in this country before the traitors got into govt in 1984. Things were more balanced then.
Surely with those percentages I've posted above, you cannot imagine that America has any sense of balance ?
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denis
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Post by denis on Jun 6, 2020 9:56:24 GMT
“No European who has tasted savage life can afterwards bear to live in our societies.” ― Benjamin Franklin
“Europeans were always trying to stop the outflow. Hernando de Soto had to post guards to keep his men and women from defecting to Native societies. The Pilgrims so feared Indianization that they made it a crime for men to wear long hair. “People who did run away to the Indians might expect very extreme punishments, even up to the death penalty,” Karen Kupperman tells us, if caught by whites.49 Nonetheless, right up to the end of independent Native nationhood in 1890, whites continued to defect, and whites who lived an Indian lifestyle, such as Daniel Boone, became cultural heroes in white society.” -loewen
“After Col. Henry Bouquet defeated the Ohio Indians at Bushy Run in 1763, he demanded the release of all white captives. Most of them, especially the children, had to be “bound hand and foot” and forcibly returned to white society. Meanwhile, the Native prisoners “went back to their defeated relations with great signs of joy,” in the words of the anthropologist Frederick Turner (in Beyond Geography, 245). Turner rightly calls these scenes “infamous and embarrassing.”-loewen
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denis
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Post by denis on Jun 6, 2020 10:12:37 GMT
“Thus it can be said that, until the fifteenth century, Black Africa never lost its civilization. Frobenius reports: Not that the first European navigators at the end of the Middle Ages failed to make some very remarkable observations. When they reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones! Entirely similar was the condition of the lands on the east coast, Mozambique, for example. The revelations of the navigators from the fifteenth to the eighteenth centuries provide positive proof that Black Africa, which extended south of the desert zone of the Sahara, was still in full bloom, in all the splendor of harmonious, well-organized civilizations. This flowering the European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced.”
― Cheikh Anta Diop,
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jonrock
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Post by jonrock on Jun 6, 2020 16:18:36 GMT
If certain ethnic groups lives are so important, they should not have more kids than what their finances/vital situation allows in 3rd world countries where: 1- crime is rampant 2- life oportunities are almost non-existant 3- they will not build a civilized society, haven't done it before the "white man" and go back to savagery when left to their own devices
Then they "travel" to high-quality-of-life countries where: 1- its inhabitants have built a civilized society 2- families are (in general) aware of their finances and act in accordance 3- crime % is lower than in the 3rd world
The effect in their country of adoption is: 1- crime goes UP 2- they will lower the oportunities of the natives 3- they import their "manners"
To top it all and thanks to the powers that rule 1- laws protect them to a ridiculous extent 2- make them believe they are special and 3- that the white man is to blame for their situation and thus must provide them with culture, jobs, oportunities in general 4- allow them to play the victim card 5- the media distorts the facts and pushes a carefully scripted plot 6- the natives suffer the consequences and must support all of this
The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery, George Bernard Shaw
You can substitute christianity for civilization and applies just as well.
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denis
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Post by denis on Jun 6, 2020 16:53:16 GMT
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denis
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Post by denis on Jun 11, 2020 11:58:23 GMT
"I would hazard to say that no movement for social change has ever succeeded without "the militarism component". Not until black demonstrators resorted to violence did the national government work seriously for civil rights legislation ... In 1850 white abolitionists, having given up on peaceful means, began to encourage and engage in actions that disrupted plantation operations and liberated slaves. Was that all wrong?" -Ingrid Newark, animal rights activist
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