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Post by mozietoes on Oct 24, 2018 16:21:24 GMT
KBs are a whole body exercise, so, you're definitely including your knees during swings, for example. One of the "go to" KB gurus for a while -- Mark Reifkind -- mentioned in a newsletter (?) that KBs create forces that are 4 - 8x the weight of the KB when the swing is at the point of the arc when it is parallel to the ground. Non-linear physics definitely isn't my thing, but, based on force generated by the KB it will affect your shoulders, elbows, lower back and knees. No getting around any of that -- basic physics and transfer of force, etc. I keep my legs braced along with my core to protect my lower back, knees, etc., from the force of the swing. I actually have better luck with KB clean & press or snatches. As Clarence Bass wrote years ago, when he was having lower back issues from KBs, once he switched to cleans along with KB snatches the pain subsided. No doubt the transfer of forces were causing the lower back issues, despite Bass having an amazingly strong core. I like cleans and snatches as well for the same reason. BTW, if I have done something to irritate/bother my knee, one other option I'll utilize is the race walking technique. You'd be surprised how protective of the knee this approach is...while I am sure my form is lacking, using more hip / glute action to "pull" my leg through while contracting the quad has helped me. I have suggested it to others with knee issues and they noted it helped as well. That's really interesting about the forces. I have only been using an 8KG bell for swings which I thought was going to be really light but it definitely gets the heart rate up. I'm doing some clean and presses - really enjoy them. I'll ask the PT about snatches (she's a girl so I have to be careful what I say ) I like the idea of the racewalking technique. I found a you tube vid - I'll give it a go. What an mine of useful info in this thread!
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Post by mozietoes on Oct 24, 2018 16:37:12 GMT
Again, not arguing. Just finding it hard to define where to back off to :-) It's also difficult knowing which particular exercise is causing the pain. Actually, the "argue" statement was a joke reference to Arnie. :-) Tee-hee! Yes, that is a challenge. One suggestion I have is to do the same or maybe a little less and stretch out the same (or less) volume in little bites throughout the day. I've never had to completely stop doing any exercise that serves me, but I have had times where I had to; 1. lay off for a while to recover/heal and then ease back into it. 2. find a work-around until I can do the exercise again. 3. Continue doing it, but at a lower volume or intensity. Another possibility is diet. The deadly nightshade family of plants - tomato, potato, eggplant and green pepper - can cause arthritic type pain in major joints for some people - I've read 40% of people affected and I'm one of those. Potatoes don't seem to bother me, but if I eat too many tomatoes, I feel the pain. The toxic gluten grains - barley, rye, oats, wheat and spelt - may also be an issue. If eating any processed foods, sauces, etc, wheat is liberally added by the manufacturer as is refined sugar. An elimination diet might provide an answer. I like to approach issues like this in a holistic manner. Did I change what I'm habitually eating? Etc. Being my own health detective has been helpful to me. Life happens and sometimes I don't pay attention. I start to feel bad until I review the environment I've subjected my body to recently. Then I go back to what I know works and things are OK again. Ah sorry missed the joke there :-) That's really good advice, thanks. Diet may well be an issue as well. I've given up a lot of grains but am still a sucker for Porridge on the morning. I'm also a vegetarian (I eat eggs and dairy but no fish, meat or poultry) so that might not help. Lots of stuff to think about and work through. Thanks :-)
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 24, 2018 16:59:56 GMT
Ah sorry missed the joke there :-) That's really good advice, thanks. Diet may well be an issue as well. I've given up a lot of grains but am still a sucker for Porridge on the morning. I'm also a vegetarian (I eat eggs and dairy but no fish, meat or poultry) so that might not help. Lots of stuff to think about and work through. Thanks :-) M-toes, Are you a resident of the US/Canada or Europe? The reason for asking? Our commercially sold grains are GMO -- which may/may not be an issue -- but, they're also sprayed with all kinds of garbage from Monsanto (Bayer) and even crops on organic farms have residual traces show up during analysis. I can eat organic oats from a health food store, but, Quaker Oats, a commercial brand? They tear up my stomach and it was recently confirmed their growers use products such as anti-mold chemicals from Monsanto/Bayer. When I've traveled to Europe -- and friends have said the same thing -- they have zero issues with wheat, oats, barley, rye and other grains. I can drink the beer in Europe, but, have issues with many of the beers in the US which I'm presuming is due to the affects of the grains. Wines in Italy and France? Sulfite free...try to find the same thing in the US, for example. You have to special order. Because of the laws in the EU, a lot of the food products that are sold as healthy and safe here in the US and in Canada are loaded with anti-mold chemicals, pesticides and of course the concerns over the potential affects of GMO crops. So, your diet may not be the culprit if you're not living in the USA...
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Oct 24, 2018 17:07:00 GMT
Ok Mikey, good advice. Makes sense but my knees are feeling great. Don't know if I want to mess with it. Because it sucks when You're on Your feet all day and Your knees are hurting. Michael, If it hurts, don't do it...makes perfect sense. Some options I might suggest, *if* you haven't tried them already and apologies if you've already given them a shot. 1. Shift your feet slightly forward -- a few inches past your knees. You'll need to have on shoes or something that would prevent your feet from sliding. Now, try pressing back from your heels using your quads and glutes. This trick has helped me with my knees. 2. If that change doesn't work, or, as another option, keeping your quads contracted AND your glutes -- a lot of people may forget to do this -- raise up slightly on your toes. 3. Don't go all the way to parallel with your upper legs. For some people, that is where the trouble starts. 4. Hold a weight in front of your body. Don't know why, but, for me this shifts some of the stress and I don't feel it in my knees. The other option? Good old quad contractions. After each surgery and rehab after an injury, the PTs always started me off with quad contractions and hamstring flexibility work. You won't look like Tom Platz, but, you'll be strengthening your quads... i.redd.it/azic9vu6e5lz.jpgAlso, with your running? If you're using shoes that have a thicker heel and running heel-toe, that might also be an issue. (When I run, I use shoes with a smaller heel.) There's a school of thought that running with heel-toe form may be detrimental to knee health due to the impact. Methods such as "Pose Running", "Chi Running" and others suggest instead of heel-toe, you instead "pull" with your lower leg with your hamstring and then let the leg "drop". The important things with this method: - You land mid-foot/near the ball of your foot. - Your foot should never go in front of the plane of your body. The most important thing if you try this is go slowly -- short distances so you learn the form and pay attention to your Achilles Tendons as this takes some getting used to. It may never work for some people as it may irritate their ATs, so, this approach isn't necessarily a fix-all: You know Texas the running has been great. I've been doing just 2-3 sets of one exercise for legs like goblet squats or one legged squats to a bench. The running seems to make my knees feel good. One thing I do now is warm up my knees before by doing a set of self resistance leg extensions and leg curls. But again I'm only running 2 miles 3 times a week. Sometimes I'll run sprints.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 24, 2018 20:07:47 GMT
....... So, your diet may not be the culprit if you're not living in the USA... True, and the sure way to find out is to do an elimination diet. It's painless and during the experiment you may find replacement foods you like more anyway, which is a bonus. That's what happened to me.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 24, 2018 20:26:00 GMT
....... So, your diet may not be the culprit if you're not living in the USA... True, and the sure way to find out is to do an elimination diet. It's painless and during the experiment you may find replacement foods you like more anyway, which is a bonus. That's what happened to me. But why bother if there's no need? I can jump on a plane to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy or France and speak with 100% certainty I won't have gluten issues with their breads/pretzels/baguettes, beer, pasta or pizza and probably drop a pound or two along the way. The porridge in the UK was not an issue. Same for friends. If mozietoes said he's having problems with an inflammatory issue like arthritis, makes perfect sense to give it a shot. But, his issues sound like most of us with chronic knee issues that will flair up and hang around for a while.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 24, 2018 21:10:05 GMT
But why bother if there's no need? ..... If mozietoes said he's having problems with an inflammatory issue like arthritis, makes perfect sense to give it a shot. But, his issues sound like most of us with chronic knee issues that will flair up and hang around for a while. Any chronic health issue is a diet issue unless possibly from an injury, and even then, the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet. "If" there's a need can be easily determined by doing an elimination diet. As you say, makes perfect sense to give it a shot.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 24, 2018 21:54:10 GMT
But why bother if there's no need? ..... If mozietoes said he's having problems with an inflammatory issue like arthritis, makes perfect sense to give it a shot. But, his issues sound like most of us with chronic knee issues that will flair up and hang around for a while. Any chronic health issue is a diet issue unless possibly from an injury, and even then, the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet. "If" there's a need can be easily determined by doing an elimination diet. As you say, makes perfect sense to give it a shot. Agreed, but, if it is a chronic or more serious orthopedic issue, diet is in't going to alleviate or relieve a structural problem as the symptoms -- discomfort, pain -- are being generated by the biomechanical problems. Advil? Aspirin? No doubt, those are the options that will best help with the inflammation created by the injury/injuries. Heat always did more for me than ice. After surgeries? Ice to get the swelling down. I am in no way disagreeing with your advocating a clean diet/ a non-inflammatory diet. Plus, it sounds like M-toes already consumes a fairly solid/clean diet...vegetarian with some eggs, etc.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 25, 2018 6:28:07 GMT
Any chronic health issue is a diet issue unless possibly from an injury, and even then, the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet. "If" there's a need can be easily determined by doing an elimination diet. As you say, makes perfect sense to give it a shot. Agreed, but, if it is a chronic or more serious orthopedic issue, diet is in't going to alleviate or relieve a structural problem as the symptoms -- discomfort, pain -- are being generated by the biomechanical problems. Advil? Aspirin? No doubt, those are the options that will best help with the inflammation created by the injury/injuries. Heat always did more for me than ice. After surgeries? Ice to get the swelling down. I am in no way disagreeing with your advocating a clean diet/ a non-inflammatory diet. Plus, it sounds like M-toes already consumes a fairly solid/clean diet...vegetarian with some eggs, etc. Right. For a mechanical issue, I said, "the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet." I don't do drugs, so I would use "Vitamin" D, Curcumin, a quality fish oil like Carlson's & stuff like that, instead of drugs. Advil & aspirin are nasty shit, IMO.
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Post by mozietoes on Oct 25, 2018 9:23:40 GMT
Ah sorry missed the joke there :-) That's really good advice, thanks. Diet may well be an issue as well. I've given up a lot of grains but am still a sucker for Porridge on the morning. I'm also a vegetarian (I eat eggs and dairy but no fish, meat or poultry) so that might not help. Lots of stuff to think about and work through. Thanks :-) M-toes, Are you a resident of the US/Canada or Europe? Yeah I'm based in the UK. I eat readybrek porridge :-) Interesting what you say about grains in the US. Had no idea!
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 25, 2018 9:39:50 GMT
Right. For a mechanical issue, I said, "the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet." I don't do drugs, so I would use "Vitamin" D, Curcumin, a quality fish oil like Carlson's & stuff like that, instead of drugs. Advil & aspirin are nasty shit, IMO. You may have answered this already, but, have you had surgeries such as ACL? Or a torn biceps? Just asking as I wish the options you list would work for the discomfort -- for healing? Agree with Vitamin D, Curcumin -- I'm not a fan of fish oil as a stand-alone, as you know -- for healing. Healing definitely helps with symptoms. Aspirin isn't quite as bad as Advil, but, with meds they're all "poisons" to some extent but they're also beneficial -- reducing inflammation and allowing healing is the other side of the coin.
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Post by mozietoes on Oct 25, 2018 9:42:31 GMT
Right. For a mechanical issue, I said, "the symptoms can be relieved to some degree by adjusting diet." I don't do drugs, so I would use "Vitamin" D, Curcumin, a quality fish oil like Carlson's & stuff like that, instead of drugs. Advil & aspirin are nasty shit, IMO. You may have answered this already, but, have you had surgeries such as ACL? Or a torn biceps? Just asking as I wish the options you list would work for the discomfort -- for healing? Agree with Vitamin D, Curcumin -- I'm not a fan of fish oil as a stand-alone, as you know -- for healing. Healing definitely helps with symptoms. Aspirin isn't quite as bad as Advil, but, with meds they're all "poisons" to some extent but they're also beneficial -- reducing inflammation and allowing healing is the other side of the coin. How do you guys take your circumin? Through powdered tumeric? Or circumin tabs?
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 25, 2018 10:01:00 GMT
Yeah I'm based in the UK. I eat readybrek porridge :-) Interesting what you say about grains in the US. Had no idea! Canada has similar issues, I believe. Here are some links: www.fastcompany.com/90219989/monsanto-fallout-how-cheerios-and-quaker-oats-responded-to-glyphosate-in-cereal-reportswww.doctoroz.com/episode/oz-investigates-truth-about-weed-killer-your-cereal?video_id=5835997276001And here's another interesting example: in the US, our farmers raise a product fondly called "crap corn" in the movie "King Corn". A genetically modified food, not only is it nearly void in nutrients -- full of calories of course -- but it is treated with various chemicals. Where is this crap corn headed? One of three places: cattle feed for cows headed to slaughter, primarily, along with poultry. Which makes our way into our grocery stores. Other destinations? High Fructose Corn Syrup and ethanol, for our petrol/gas supplies (which screws up our car engines). Edible/healthy corn native to the Americas comprises <20 - 25% of the total corn crops grown here. Which is too bad because the absolutely amazing corn I remember eating as a kid, especially straight off the farm at state fairs, is become more and more a thing of the past. www.kingcorn.net/
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 25, 2018 10:04:18 GMT
How do you guys take your circumin? Through powdered tumeric? Or circumin tabs? Powdered 3x per week.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 25, 2018 12:55:41 GMT
...... How do you guys take your circumin? Through powdered tumeric? Or circumin tabs? I take this one from Jarrow Formulas. Another suggestion is collagen, like this one from Great Lakes. I take it occasionally. Also, MSM? I don't take it currently, but may try it again. Here's one that I haven't checked out, but gives an idea of what MSM is claimed to do. Also, I eat whole eggs with runny yolks, which I never fry in oils (I avoid frying like it was a drug): Fast has been eating lots of eggs. I wonder if he has experienced any chronic joint issues lately? The thing that can trick people about designing their diet to fix health issues is that, food which supplies the nutrition to the body so that it can heal itself as it does, requires longer and comes up slower than putting a band-aid of drugs on/in. However, it is what actually fixes the problem at its base, which is in large part caused by insufficient nutrients at the start, as opposed to drugs which, in order to work, use up nutrients without replacing them and that resulting lack then causing other health issues, which then need more drugs to fix the side effects of those, which then require more drugs to fix ......... etc, to surgeries, etc, more drugs ...... death.
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