pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 20:29:35 GMT
If it's the semantics of barter that's an issue, just exchange gifts. No tax on gifts, right? Correct, no tax on gifts but they must be true gifts and not labeled a gift when in fact it's a disguised compensation amount. The tax law and judicial authority is quite clear on this. I once wrote a white paper on this topic that I shared with clients and peers. Anyway, we're getting off track of the original topic of discussing tax cheats. The difference between tax cheating by the super wealthy and others lower on the economic totem pole is one of opportunity. The super wealthy person likely has more opportunity.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:30:30 GMT
OK, but in barter, the fair market price is determined by the owners of the property or service going into it, isn't it? If goods or services are traded and both parties are satisfied, that's an equal value trade, win/win, because the value is a perception.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:36:14 GMT
If I want to do a service for someone - paint their garage or something - and I would normally charge $10K based on square feet, labor, materials, etc, but I decide to accept their used car in trade that's worth $6K, that's between them and me. It's a private exchange of perceived value.
At least, that's the way I've lived most of my life.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:51:04 GMT
I'm glad we're discussing this, thanks. I think that barter is a skill that may be handy in the near future. Knowing who knows, can do or has what in my community is a good thing. Everyone has something other people need and being a contributing member of a community is a sharing experience. I am not an island.
OK, so i'm rambling now ..........
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:53:54 GMT
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 21:36:13 GMT
If it's the semantics of barter that's an issue, just exchange gifts. No tax on gifts, right? Correct, no tax on gifts but they must be true gifts and not labeled a gift when in fact it's a disguised compensation amount. ........ OK. I always exchange true gifts, m8.
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 21:49:01 GMT
Correct, no tax on gifts but they must be true gifts and not labeled a gift when in fact it's a disguised compensation amount. ........ OK. I always exchange true gifts, m8. Since you seem to have an above-average interest in this discussion, you may enjoy reading an article I wrote several years about gifts here: www.linkedin.com/pulse/give-me-gift-real-edward-joseph-pierini-jr-/
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Post by billfish on Sept 9, 2021 21:51:18 GMT
If I want to do a service for someone - paint their garage or something - and I would normally charge $10K based on square feet, labor, materials, etc, but I decide to accept their used car in trade that's worth $6K, that's between them and me. It's a private exchange of perceived value. At least, that's the way I've lived most of my life. The way it should be mikey ! Only the government would try to twist that That's the way we all lived in this country at one time
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 22:18:06 GMT
Look at all the companies some of these parasites own, "acquired" when all the hard work was done by others to get the company up and running in a profitable state. Corporate raiders who buy others out with Daddy's money. Aided and abetted by Govt, who are in their pocket. That's the corruption of rampant capitalism that is used to dominate and control The People. It's often generational, and is the path through to the OWG now using the "pandemic" as a means of control. Vaccines that are not vaccines, but gene "therapy" that is already caused thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of permanent disability, and screwing up women's reproductive systems. No, that isn't "capitalism", the definition of that circumstance is actually an abuse of capitalism that's defined as 'crony capitalism'... I've never had any problem with capitalism up to point. It provides motivation. It's Rampant capitalism using corporate-directed pocket-govt laws to monopolize and dictate their employees welfare, over any social responsibility that I despise.
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 22:32:21 GMT
...and not sure where this discussion is going but my point is that these 'off the books' jobs just don't exist anymore to the extent where any significant amount of taxes aren't being paid to the government, so it's a moot point. ***If anyone is seeking to be 'outraged' by anything how about we`take a look at some of the healthcare costs for ILLEGAL 'immigrants' that the American taxpayers are burdened with every year, There are reports that the amount approaches approximately 20 BILLION dollars a year to provide FREE medical for these ILLEGALS, yet I personally know 100% LEGAL American citizens who struggle to provide decent medical for their families, or in some circumstances have to risk going without medical insurance because the cost is just too high.... ...and then to add insult to injury the scumbag 'white shoe' democrat elitists put a heavy 'individual mandate' penalty on any legal citizen going without insurance for more than 3 consecutive months. If there was one thing I was hoping for when the dems came into power was some form of 'socialized' medicine, some type of minimum medical plan that American citizens can acquire for truly very little or no cost to them, this way no American citizen risks losing everything if God forbid they get sick and have no insurance. The ironic thing about the whole mess is this is actually a workable plan, provided that U.S. taxpayers aren't burdened with having to provide financially for ILLEGALS who have no business being here in the first place. www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/?sh=41edd96512c4Well you don't honestly think that with any govt (Rep OR Dem) in the pockets of the Super-Rich that immigrants etc are somehow the fault of "the left" or "liberals" do you ? That might appear to you on the level you are operating (which is fair enough in itself) but all this stuff going on since the Money Men got their brief back in the early 20th century is a systematic building up of society in order to gain great wealth and power (heck the Money Men wanted to "get' Roosevelt, even. They certainly took out Kennedy) via the 60's and 70's, then started to bring the tighteners on everybody (except themselves) as time went on. It has been a systematic building up of the age-old "inner group" of power-mongers who use money as the ultimate power, and war to enforce it when money is not working. The longer The People keep on about "Reps" or "Dems" the longer the PTB have you under their thumb. They've got your emotions and your Mind in their hands.
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 22:49:04 GMT
If it's the semantics of barter that's an issue, just exchange gifts. No tax on gifts, right? Correct, no tax on gifts but they must be true gifts and not labeled a gift when in fact it's a disguised compensation amount. The tax law and judicial authority is quite clear on this. I once wrote a white paper on this topic that I shared with clients and peers. Anyway, we're getting off track of the original topic of discussing tax cheats. The difference between tax cheating by the super wealthy and others lower on the economic totem pole is one of opportunity. The super wealthy person likely has more opportunity. It's also of a degree of severity. The honest worker (not a thief or drug pusher) who works for folding on the side is still not doing any damage because he will spend it on businesses and groceries that are paying their share (fair or not) of tax. He will also not be as much of a burden on society, needing the dole etc. The billionaire who doesn't pay any tax is doing enormous damage by not re-circulating the money back into the economy, the money-go-round. The fact that it is legal does not mean that it is moral conduct. Or that it is good for the country as a whole.
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 22:59:25 GMT
Macky the tone of your last post makes it seem that all these ultra-wealthy PTB people as you like to call them are stuffing all their wealth in a mattress where it's not used for economic purposes. Nothing could be further from the truth. Whereas the little guy might use his under the table money to buy groceries and clothes for the kids, the ultra wealthy invest their money in real estate or the stock market and there's equal good in that. Unfortunately, USA tax law doesn't make a distinction by socio-economic class that makes tax evasion any less of a crime for the small guy as it is for the big guy.
You posted some eloquent stuff over the years and this I appreciate but rhetoric without facts or a detailed proposal on how to change the system that you judge benefits this mythical PTB class is just rhetoric, much like what a politician spews.
Under your mythical leadership, what specific changes would you make?
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Post by Magnus on Sept 10, 2021 1:54:46 GMT
***If anyone is seeking to be 'outraged' by anything how about we`take a look at some of the healthcare costs for ILLEGAL 'immigrants' that the American taxpayers are burdened with every year, There are reports that the amount approaches approximately 20 BILLION dollars a year to provide FREE medical for these ILLEGALS, yet I personally know 100% LEGAL American citizens who struggle to provide decent medical for their families, or in some circumstances have to risk going without medical insurance because the cost is just too high.... www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/?sh=41edd96512c4Well you don't honestly think that with any govt (Rep OR Dem) in the pockets of the Super-Rich that immigrants etc are somehow the fault of "the left" or "liberals" do you ? That might appear to you on the level you are operating (which is fair enough in itself) but all this stuff going on since the Money Men got their brief back in the early 20th century is a systematic building up of society in order to gain great wealth and power (heck the Money Men wanted to "get' Roosevelt, even. They certainly took out Kennedy) via the 60's and 70's, then started to bring the tighteners on everybody (except themselves) as time went on. It has been a systematic building up of the age-old "inner group" of power-mongers who use money as the ultimate power, and war to enforce it when money is not working. The longer The People keep on about "Reps" or "Dems" the longer the PTB have you under their thumb. They've got your emotions and your Mind in their hands. The "level that I'm operating" is 100% LEGAL AMERICAN hard working middle class tax paying citizen, and YES it's the fault of the 'leftist' liberal policies that allow the abuses to go on. Sorry Macky, but the "PTB" thing you keep mentioning is just a defeatist excuse...
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Post by Magnus on Sept 10, 2021 2:11:43 GMT
Macky the tone of your last post makes it seem that all these ultra-wealthy PTB people as you like to call them are stuffing all their wealth in a mattress where it's not used for economic purposes... You posted some eloquent stuff over the years and this I appreciate but rhetoric without facts or a detailed proposal on how to change the system that you judge benefits this mythical PTB class is just rhetoric, much like what a politician spews. Under your mythical leadership, what specific changes would you make? I've come to the conclusion that Macky's political philosophy is in a class of it's own; a mixture of 'Utopian Socialist' combined with 'Democratic Socialist' with perhaps a sprinkling of 'Libertarian Socialist' to spice it up... all that and he won't shy away from a good conspiracy theory if there's one brewing
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 10, 2021 2:39:22 GMT
Well you don't honestly think that with any govt (Rep OR Dem) in the pockets of the Super-Rich that immigrants etc are somehow the fault of "the left" or "liberals" do you ? That might appear to you on the level you are operating (which is fair enough in itself) but all this stuff going on since the Money Men got their brief back in the early 20th century is a systematic building up of society in order to gain great wealth and power (heck the Money Men wanted to "get' Roosevelt, even. They certainly took out Kennedy) via the 60's and 70's, then started to bring the tighteners on everybody (except themselves) as time went on. It has been a systematic building up of the age-old "inner group" of power-mongers who use money as the ultimate power, and war to enforce it when money is not working. The longer The People keep on about "Reps" or "Dems" the longer the PTB have you under their thumb. They've got your emotions and your Mind in their hands. The "level that I'm operating" is 100% LEGAL AMERICAN hard working middle class tax paying citizen, and YES it's the fault of the 'leftist' liberal policies that allow the abuses to go on. Sorry Macky, but the "PTB" thing you keep mentioning is just a defeatist excuse... You should know by now that laws are only for The People to abide by, not the PTB elitists. And despite all that's wrong in America has been going on for successive Rep/Dem govts, you still immerse yourself in political street fighting instead of addressing the real problems i.e. increasing wealth disparity, govt (whoever they are) corruption, and global terrorism of the medical kind. Said govt corruption coming by way of laws that let Trump go scot free when a clear majority voted for his conviction for insurrection. Was Trump's behaviour "leftist"? Why shouldn't he be facing jail time like over 500 of his supporters are now ? And you say that the PTB thing is defeatist ? It's plain that the Big Boys get laws in their favour that don't apply to you and me. That's not Left or Liberal. It's fascist, if you want to put a label on it.
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