Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,273
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Post by Michael on Sept 9, 2021 16:06:47 GMT
Who the heck really cares if someone is working off the books.... It isn't anyones business unless it's a 'contractor' that you might potentially hire to work in your home, and then you'd better make sure that they're properly insured along with having workmen's compensation insurance... Magnus I had someone I worked with in the past do my bathroom. I ripped it out and he did everything else. What's someone going to arrest me? It was cheaper that way because I'm not rich like Pierini. I do certain things myself in my house.
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pierinifitness
Caneguru
His sky is always blue over yonder
Posts: 2,673
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 16:15:02 GMT
I was once talking to a client who had some wealth who was complaining about the amount of income taxes he paid. To get his attention, I called him a "rich white guy." That was like hitting him on the head and it got his attention which is what I wanted to do.
He replied that he wasn't rich but, rather, comfortable. He probably had a net worth of $7-9 million. I didn't argue with him but added that to the homeless guy pushing a shopping cart, a guy having $1,000 in his checking account is a "rich white guy." It's all a matter of relativity and perspective.
I later used that term to describe another client and he responded similarly. What I learned is that many who have prosperity, relatively speaking, don't like to be coined as rich. Rich is what other people are.
Michael, I'm not rich but rather comfortable and so are most of us who frequent here or at least that's what I presume.
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,273
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Post by Michael on Sept 9, 2021 16:25:45 GMT
On my week day job they take out almost half my pay in taxes. I'm not rich or comfortable. I'm in between poor and comfortable. That's why I do tree work on the side. If someone doesn't like it, there is nothing they can do. I have to survive. If someone wants to kill me for working instead of collecting or doing something really illegal that's a shame. All the stuff You guys say the government does to use and you worry about this. That's just crazy in my mind.
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brothersteve
Caneguru
He ain't heavy, he's my brother
Armed with a shovel, snow fears me!
Posts: 2,191
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Post by brothersteve on Sept 9, 2021 16:45:08 GMT
Who the heck really cares if someone is working off the books.... It isn't anyones business unless it's a 'contractor' that you might potentially hire to work in your home, and then you'd better make sure that they're properly insured along with having workmen's compensation insurance... Even though I have been in the insurance business since 1989, I have taken the risk of letting work be done on my property only after getting someone referred to me, talking thoroughly with the person to do the work, my being there to see it done, and what job was being done. Saving a little can cost you a lot. There can be huge risk of losing everything (depending on what you have) if you hire someone uninsured and they get injured, not just Workers' Comp., but General Liability as well. Get CURRENTLY dated Certificates of Insurance. A guy showed me an old cert. that looked like he made it himself in a bad copier AND the coverage dates were expired. I don't care how people make their money to support their families EXCEPT for one thing; I will NEVER support the sales efforts of drug dealers.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 17:35:50 GMT
Ben Franklin said no one should pay more than 10% of income to gov, so anything beyond that is yours. Taxes are voluntary anyway to enable a functioning government to treat us, their rulers, as well as we wish. You can't cheat on something that is voluntary.
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 17:41:08 GMT
On my week day job that take out almost half my pay in taxes. I'm not rich or comfortable. I'm in between poor and comfortable. That's why I do tree work on the side. If someone doesn't like it there is nothing they can do. I have to survive. If someone wants to kill me for working instead of collecting or doing something really illegal that's a shame. All the stuff You guys say the government does to use and you worry about this. That's just crazy in my mind. Michael, check your W-4 form, something isn't right because that's far too much "tax" being taken out... *unless they're also deducting for medical insurance, retirement, etc. ?
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 18:05:02 GMT
On my week day job that take out almost half my pay in taxes. I'm not rich or comfortable. I'm in between poor and comfortable. That's why I do tree work on the side. If someone doesn't like it there is nothing they can do. I have to survive. If someone wants to kill me for working instead of collecting or doing something really illegal that's a shame. All the stuff You guys say the government does to use and you worry about this. That's just crazy in my mind. Michael, you're right, it's your business to do as you please, and many years ago while going to trade school I worked full time working for a tree service after the school day ended at 3 pm, I cleaned up the worksites from earlier in the day and also used the log splitter to cut up and then deliver firewood well into the night... I had off school on Friday's, so I worked a full day on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I honestly would love to have 1/4 of the energy I used to have to be able to do all that, but you're right again, hunger and poverty are great motivators, and I wasn't even given free encouragement while growing up. No, mainly for me it was just pure negativity and everything I did and every plan I made having the motive questioned by unappreciative and condescending 'parents', so being the type of person that I was and still remain to be, I just said "Fuck You", and then put my head down and went to work without anyones 'help'... ...but all that said I wouldn't want to lose all I've built over the years to some sleaze ball scumbag lawyer who was likely born with a silver spoon in his mouth along with every opportunity in life that I was never given, or some other sad sack of shit type 'sue happy' home or business owner that sees an easy windfall payday at my expense, so it's IMPERATIVE that if I'm going to potentially expose myself to a lawsuit, I have a decent amount of liability coverage to cover my ass... It really isn't as expensive as you might think, but the choice is always yours
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,273
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Post by Michael on Sept 9, 2021 18:16:24 GMT
, Mr.P I like how You think. Magnus I appreciate what You wrote. You may be right about the W-2. I'm not worried about insurance for doing physical work.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 18:55:25 GMT
BTW, barter is alive and well. Compensation is whatever you and the person you're entering into contract with agree on.
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pierinifitness
Caneguru
His sky is always blue over yonder
Posts: 2,673
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 19:19:19 GMT
BTW, barter is alive and well. Compensation is whatever you and the person you're entering into contract with agree on. True and not necessarily true. It's true that barter is alive and well. It's not necessarily true that compensation is whatever you and the person you're entering into contract agree on, particularly if the facts and circumstances don't align with what you stipulate in your agreement. Substance and not form matters. I'll give you an example. You and I can agree on a barter transaction that you'll paint my house and I'll give you my old clunker automobile in exchange for your service. We may agree on paper that the compensation is $100 but if the value of my clunker is $2,000, that's the income you earn from painting my house in exchange for my clunker.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 19:49:55 GMT
In order to have a contract there must be:
1. Offer 2. Acceptance 3. Meeting of the minds between two sentient beings 4. Full disclosure of all circumstances pertaining to the contract 5. Signature of both sentient beings
If all of these are not satisfied, there is no contract. Notice that there is no mention of monetary values.
Barter is an exchange of perceived value. The values involved are decided by each individual in the exchange.
In your example, pierini, the value of the items traded is irrelevant if both parties agree on that trade and the painter doesn't knowingly use shitty paint or unless some other relevant fact is withheld. If I decide that my property is fair trade for what I receive from the other party, that's our contract and no one else's business.
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pierinifitness
Caneguru
His sky is always blue over yonder
Posts: 2,673
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 19:58:04 GMT
In order to have a contract there must be: 1. Offer 2. Acceptance 3. Meeting of the minds between two sentient beings 4. Full disclosure of all circumstances pertaining to the contract 5. Signature of both sentient beings If all of these are not satisfied, there is no contract. Notice that there is no mention of monetary values. Barter is an exchange of perceived value. The values involved are decided by each individual in the exchange. In your example, pierini, the value of the items traded is irrelevant if both parties agree on that trade and the painter doesn't knowingly use shitty paint or unless some other relevant fact is withheld. If I decide that my property is fair trade for what I receive from the other party, that's our contract and no one else's business. Well I guess you know more things than me about this so best to leave it at that. However, you may want to study a little more in case you might be wrong. One point however, referring to your list of items required for a contract, a contract may be oral unless a written one is required by the statute of frauds.
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:03:35 GMT
True, I'd say in most cases, the contract is oral and usually "signed" by handshake if anything.
Have you ever been to a flea market or yard sale? When you buy a car, do you pay full price? If you dicker with the dealership and they knock off a couple thousand or hundred, which amount do you pay sales tax on? If you don't pay sales tax on the sticker price, isn't that "tax evasion"?
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Post by mr potatohead on Sept 9, 2021 20:16:54 GMT
If it's the semantics of barter that's an issue, just exchange gifts. No tax on gifts, right?
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pierinifitness
Caneguru
His sky is always blue over yonder
Posts: 2,673
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 20:26:43 GMT
True, I'd say in most cases, the contract is oral and usually "signed" by handshake if anything. Have you ever been to a flea market or yard sale? When you buy a car, do you pay full price? If you dicker with the dealership and they knock off a couple thousand or hundred, which amount do you pay sales tax on? If you don't pay sales tax on the sticker price, isn't that "tax evasion"? Price doesn't necessarily equal fair market value which is the measure used to determine the income from a transaction. A negotiated sale price in an arms-length transaction among unrelated people is likely the fair market value of a transaction and, therefore, its sale price. You pay sales tax on the sale price which may be different than the list price. To answer the question in your last sentence, no.
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