pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 8, 2021 21:29:52 GMT
I read an internet article (translation: garbage most "of the time) with the headline "US’s wealthiest 1% are failing to pay $160bn a year in taxes, report finds". It talked about how the super-wealthy are cheating on their income taxes but specific examples were not provided. Reading a little deeper, the article had a slant of how beefing up IRS staff would bring some of these taxpayer dollars in so our federal government could blow it as fast as they receive it. While I don't doubt that cheats exist at the upper wealth echelon of society, no mention was made of the tax cheating going on at lower levels. For example, the IRS reported about a dozen years ago (2012) that the "USA lost $500 billion in taxes because of unreported income. The underground economy includes millions of workers who would like to have legitimate "on the books" jobs, but who can't find them. Their only alternative is to work off the books and accept payment in cash." So, everyone cheats the tax man yet this current article makes no mention of it. Here's the article if you care to read more: www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/us-s-wealthiest-1-are-failing-to-pay-160bn-a-year-in-taxes-report-finds/ar-AAOeFWT?ocid=msedgntpThe lamestream media wouldn't write about the cheating going on at the lower level but picking on the wealthy is fair game. Let the person who hasn't cheated on their income tax reporting throw the first stone at the wealthy cheaters!
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Post by Magnus on Sept 8, 2021 23:24:13 GMT
The underground economy includes millions of workers who would like to have legitimate "on the books" jobs, but who can't find them. Their only alternative is to work off the books and accept payment in cash. just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... *You don't believe this, do you Pierini ?
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Post by Magnus on Sept 8, 2021 23:55:24 GMT
...it's much harder to qualify for FREE medical, food stamps, rent subsidies, welfare, etc., etc., when you're 'on the books', that's the reality of the situation.
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 0:53:52 GMT
The world's not ALL black and white. It's a matter of shades of grey. If someone who can't get a job despite genuine and diligent trying, is working under the table for folding in order to get the cash for his family's survival, good for them, I say.
Why should he be disenfranchised by having his job taken from him and given to some sweat-shop Asian in China by the Super-rich CEO's on 20m a year not try his best to provide for his family.
It's easy to cast aspersions on those down the bottom of the ladder trying to make their way in life, from the point of view of someone who never had his job stolen from him and passed out to foreign labour.
Said foreign labour doesn't really benefit from it either, because they still get their wages driven down by the Greedies so that they get just enough to pay their way, but not enough to be able to leave and go somewhere else.
That has resulted in Chinese parents having to take their kids out of school and send them to work in these disgusting conditions. Of course, we only hear about the economic powerhouse that China is, not the ugly bits.
If the poor old IRS is so dreadfully worried about the paltry 500 billion a year taxes being lost, then that's less than what America spends on war every year anyway. AND that money will still be used to prop up the money-go-round and support legit tax-paying businesses, for the good of everyone.
Not hoarded up in some sort of tax haven somewhere in the world, doing nothing but elevating individuals' status above all others, simply by the amount of dollars which are only figures on paper they have.
If someone who is not holding anybody up at gunpoint, not cheating people out of their money, who has diligently worked hard all his working life gets his job simply stolen off him legally by some uncaring govt-sanctioned multi-millionaire CEO or BOD member and passed onto another country, and has tried to find other work unsuccessfully despite his best efforts, then all power to him.
Why the hell should The People continue to suffer at the hands of a govt (Rep OR Dem) that sanctions 1% of the people gathering all the clover and sending The People's jobs overseas ?
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 4:15:11 GMT
The world's not ALL black and white. It's a matter of shades of grey. If someone who can't get a job despite genuine and diligent trying, is working under the table for folding in order to get the cash for his family's survival, good for them, I say. Macky, I agree, I respect and am genuinely glad for anyone working in any honest employment, either 'on' or 'off' the books, but the reality of the situation here in the New York / New Jersey Metropolitan areas along with what I hear from my cousins who live in the Greater Los Angeles California metro area on the west coast of this country is that 'off the books' jobs just don't exist anymore like they used to. I know plenty of people in certain life circumstances, retired, on disability, whatever, who would love to not have to pay taxes anymore, and 25 years ago it was common here to find these jobs, but now it's just too easy for an employer to get into major trouble, so it's just not common anymore except for a few 'niche' type of jobs where certain recent 'immigrants' who know how to play the 'system' hire other immigrants who then also show little to no income and then they all put the 'squeeze' on the system themselves, getting everything from FREE medical to a long laundry list of taxpayer funded 'subsidies'... Need proof of what I claim ? Look what happened to my buddy Mike when he paid workers 'off the books'...
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 4:27:30 GMT
...and just for clarification:
If you know the backstory, that little wise ass reporter that Michael threatened to throw off the balcony had it coming...
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 6:11:40 GMT
The world's not ALL black and white. It's a matter of shades of grey. If someone who can't get a job despite genuine and diligent trying, is working under the table for folding in order to get the cash for his family's survival, good for them, I say. Macky, I agree, I respect and am genuinely glad for anyone working in any honest employment, either 'on' or 'off' the books, but the reality of the situation here in the New York / New Jersey Metropolitan areas along with what I hear from my cousins who live in the Greater Los Angeles California metro area on the west coast of this country is that 'off the books' jobs just don't exist anymore like they used to. I know plenty of people in certain life circumstances, retired, on disability, whatever, who would love to not have to pay taxes anymore, and 25 years ago it was common here to find these jobs, but now it's just too easy for an employer to get into major trouble, so it's just not common anymore except for a few 'niche' type of jobs where certain recent 'immigrants' who know how to play the 'system' hire other immigrants who then also show little to no income and then they all put the 'squeeze' on the system themselves, getting everything from FREE medical to a long laundry list of taxpayer funded 'subsidies'... Need proof of what I claim ? Look what happened to my buddy Mike when he paid workers 'off the books'... I don't need any proof of what you say Mags, when it comes to NY and your cousins' area. You are all there, I am not, so the "other side of the world" mantra certainly applies. And you tell the truth, no question. But like here, the reason why under-table jobs have become harder to find is because they are much fewer than a few decades ago, when wages came in stapled envelopes via a pay-line, one did not need a bank account, nor were people saddled with a personal tax number (without which one will never get a legit job) etc. The clamp-down by the PTB (and yes it IS the PTB) in the late 70's/early 80's was the start of pulling in every man women and child under the MoneyMen's umbrella, and therefore subject to financial manipulation in ways that many don't seem to realize, or even care, if they do. In effect, anybody not Off-grid and especially with a family was truly under the thumb of the Controllers of the Dollar. Remember Layby ? At least that's the NZ word for it. You would put deposits on an item which was being kept for you out the back of the shop, picking it up when you paid the full amount. Suddenly banks started issuing credit cards so that you could "have now, pay later" and in one foul stroke, yet another controlling nail was hammered into the coffin. Continuing Debt. Plus of course it was a license to print money. All these other types of accounts appeared such as "target accounts", overdrafts, etc and the Stock Market was the big play, with "futures" and other monetary hocus pocus becoming super-popular, and which a few got rich while the others lost their savings and houses with the 1986 Crash. Now we have a giant House Of Cards with the Forex market, and where enormous amounts of money cross the globe every day, back and forth. If somehow a member of The People who is out of a job and finds himself and his family in jeopardy, then if he can find someone who will pay him in Folding, then why shouldn't he go for it ? Today my son-in-law is out downtown helping to organize and deliver food parcels to Those In Need who have been struck down by the latest Lockdown in Auckland, many having gone out of business permanently. It may be interesting to know that by October last year, over 60 million in the US had lost their jobs and half the country's restaurants were closed for good. Doesn't that make any tax avoidance seem paltry ? So who is behind all this shutting the world's economies down ? I will bet that one day whatever you've saved in the bank will be gone in a flash, and there will be no withdrawal possible, as a complete restructure of the global monetary system is engineered and comes to pass. That is the real reason for the "1%" and the following "9%" holding over 2/3 of the US wealth (and counting) and which will identify more fully who the PTB really are. You know, the Bill Gates, the WHO's second largest benefactor, and big CDC financial supporter. And his cronies. The FedRes bosses, the bankers and CEO's of multi-nationals, and on...... At that point, I would hope that all the scrapping about "Dumbocrats" and Liberals, GOP has-beens etc will finally dawn on The People as to what it is, a giant charade fit for morons and a great gimmick to divide The People and get them fighting each other. I know I've deviated away from the original intent of the thread, but to me it's all connected and the "Covid pandemic" is part and parcel of something that had its beginning a very long time ago. Global control via One World Govt, reduction via vaccination of the world's population, Eugenics like the Nazi's where select race(s) are the Chosen. Clues to the control of the population have popped up everywhere, even years ago. As a seemingly unrelated example, Forest And Bird society and others who are concerned with halting deforestation by introduced animals have come by methods of bait that doesn't leave carcasses everywhere, but simply makes the animals impotent, unable to reproduce. Note recent posts that have highlighted women having their reproductive processes interfered with, and with thousands of sudden abortions happening, after vaccination. And "They've" only just started.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Sept 9, 2021 10:57:23 GMT
Who the heck really cares if someone is working off the books. I've been in this situation in the past. Had to feed my family and put a roof over their head. If someone that isn't in government is worried about someone working off the books they have nothing else better to do in their lives. When You grow up not knowing if there is going to be a roof over Your head or food on Your table You don't give a,You know what, what someone with money thinks when You have to support Your Family. If the people that are worrying about this kind of struggle had the shoe on the other foot they may change their tune.
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macky
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Post by macky on Sept 9, 2021 12:28:56 GMT
Damn right, Michael. Easy to criticize when they're well off. And that doesn't detract from rightful criticism of billionaires who don't pay their fair share back into the vey economy that made them rich. Some even brag that in X year they didn't pay ANY taxes at all.
It's just thumbing their noses at the ones that built our countries, while they stood by and got rich on the backs of others.
Look at all the companies some of these parasites own, "acquired" when all the hard work was done by others to get the company up and running in a profitable state. Corporate raiders who buy others out with Daddy's money. Aided and abetted by Govt, who are in their pocket.
That's the corruption of rampant capitalism that is used to dominate and control The People. It's often generational, and is the path through to the OWG now using the "pandemic" as a means of control. Vaccines that are not vaccines, but gene "therapy" that is already caused thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of permanent disability, and screwing up women's reproductive systems.
Wait till the boosters get underway, then the "next strain" appears, then another "booster". People having their DNA altered by the million. I will bet that the PTB haven't been vaccinated.
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 13:06:26 GMT
Look at all the companies some of these parasites own, "acquired" when all the hard work was done by others to get the company up and running in a profitable state. Corporate raiders who buy others out with Daddy's money. Aided and abetted by Govt, who are in their pocket. That's the corruption of rampant capitalism that is used to dominate and control The People. It's often generational, and is the path through to the OWG now using the "pandemic" as a means of control. Vaccines that are not vaccines, but gene "therapy" that is already caused thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of permanent disability, and screwing up women's reproductive systems. No, that isn't "capitalism", the definition of that circumstance is actually an abuse of capitalism that's defined as 'crony capitalism'...
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 13:29:48 GMT
...and not sure where this discussion is going but my point is that these 'off the books' jobs just don't exist anymore to the extent where any significant amount of taxes aren't being paid to the government, so it's a moot point. ***If anyone is seeking to be 'outraged' by anything how about we`take a look at some of the healthcare costs for ILLEGAL 'immigrants' that the American taxpayers are burdened with every year, There are reports that the amount approaches approximately 20 BILLION dollars a year to provide FREE medical for these ILLEGALS, yet I personally know 100% LEGAL American citizens who struggle to provide decent medical for their families, or in some circumstances have to risk going without medical insurance because the cost is just too high.... ...and then to add insult to injury the scumbag 'white shoe' democrat elitists put a heavy 'individual mandate' penalty on any legal citizen going without insurance for more than 3 consecutive months. If there was one thing I was hoping for when the dems came into power was some form of 'socialized' medicine, some type of minimum medical plan that American citizens can acquire for truly very little or no cost to them, this way no American citizen risks losing everything if God forbid they get sick and have no insurance. The ironic thing about the whole mess is this is actually a workable plan, provided that U.S. taxpayers aren't burdened with having to provide financially for ILLEGALS who have no business being here in the first place. www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/?sh=41edd96512c4
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 13:40:29 GMT
Well my observations and experiences differ with what Mag shared. I see boundless opportunities to work under the table - a.k.a. underground economy. It's pretty easy to do in the trades. Like my former neighborhood garage mechanic who was always working on cars. While I never asked him, I'm sure the money he made doing garage mechanic work in his driveway was unreported income. Ditto for my neighbor where I now live. If he isn't making a million dollars a year wrenching it, he's undercharging because I've never seem so many cars at his place all the time. Note that I live in a rural setting with homes all on about 1.5 acres so it's not like a crowded neighborhood where the neighbors would scream and tell.
I remember one time needing a major retaining wall for one of my rental properties. After touring the neighborhood, I saw one that I liked so I went to the home and asked the owner who did their retaining wall. They told me "Gomez" (can't remember his actual name so Gomez will work for this sharing). I called Gomez and he came out, driving the nicest Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck money can buy. I told him I wanted something just like what he did for the neighbor. He told me it would cost about $4,000 (can't remember exact amount.)
Then I told Gomez that I would be paying him by check and would need his Social Security number because I'd need to issue him an IRS Form 1099-MISC at the end of the year to comply with my tax reporting obligations.
Gomez looked like he saw a ghost!
He told me that he only accepted cash and then politely quickly exited while telling me that he wouldn't be able to do the job for me.
He drove off in his super nice and shiny Chevrolet Silverado and soon thereafter, I drove off in my high-mileage and used Honda Accord, what Dave Ramsey would call a "beater."
These are just two examples of probable tax cheats.
Or the guy who paints homes on the side for extra money. Do you think he reports the income? Maybe, but my guess is that the majority do not.
Or the guy who trims trees on the side. Do you think he reports the income? Maybe, but my guess is that many do not.
Or a common situation of someone who needs some work done and offers to pay the person doing the work in-kind, meaning giving him something or value like a used vehicle or tools. That's income for the person receiving the in-kind property but not cash.
US tax law is pretty clear in Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code: (a) General definition: Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived . . . . "
The examples I gave above are not "except as otherwise provided in this subtitle", meaning that they are taxable income activities.
Ditto for the high school kid of yesteryear who would mow his neighbor's law or rake leaves or shovel snow for $20. That's taxable income. There's no dollar threshold.
Hey, I don't make the tax rules, I just know of them.
Now there are legal ways to defer income such as those who contribute to a retirement account - popularly known as 401(k) plans - and defer the income earned by the amount of their contribution to a qualified retirement plan. Or, the guy like me who has sold real estate in a tax deferred way under Section 1031 of the Internal Revenue Code and able to defer (delay) reporting the profit from the sale as current taxable income.
There are countless other examples that I could take all day to share but I'll stop while I'm ahead.
So, in my lifetime, in my earlier days, I probably had some activities where I earned pocket change that I didn't report as income. But, because of my profession, I reported all my income and continue to this day. Even the not-so-obvious because I have the knowledge to know better and intentional ignorance isn't an option for me because of my profession.
Tax cheats come in all sizes and shapes. Some speak English but some don't. Some are ultra-wealthy and some aren't. Some wear blue turtlenecks and some wear red turtlenecks.
Evasion of income tax is a crime but avoidance by using legal means is not a crime but, rather, being smart and hiring a professional to guide you along the way.
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 14:28:26 GMT
These are just two examples of probable tax cheats. Or the guy who paints homes on the side for extra money. Do you think he reports the income? Maybe, but my guess is that the majority do not. Or the guy who trims trees on the side. Do you think he reports the income? Maybe, but my guess is that many do not. Times have changed Pierini, and lots more homeowners and business owners now fully know that if they hire any of these shady characters who circumvent the law to work in their home or business's, and either the 'contractor' or their workers get hurt on the property or cause damage to the surrounding property(s) the property owner is going to be in for a world of hurt, and ignorance of the law is no excuse...
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Post by Magnus on Sept 9, 2021 14:36:35 GMT
Who the heck really cares if someone is working off the books.... It isn't anyones business unless it's a 'contractor' that you might potentially hire to work in your home, and then you'd better make sure that they're properly insured along with having workmen's compensation insurance...
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Sept 9, 2021 15:21:33 GMT
Mag, you're absolutely right about insurance and workers compensation insurance. I'll give another example because stories shared are fun to read.
Years ago, I had a rental property that had mature landscaping in the backyard, including two large evergreen trees. One I was concerned about so I asked "Nacho" who had done other handyman work for me. Nacho said he could take down the tree and what he said he would charge me seemed fair. I had experience using Nacho before so I judged him trustworthy. He had done tree work for me before.
Well Nacho took down the tree but in doing so a large branch went crashing down on my neighbors' roof that had solar panels installed on it. And it also crashed on the common fence we shared.
Needless to say, I got a call from the neighbor almost immediately. And, Nacho wasn't a solution for me handling the damage caused.
I assured the neighbor I would take care of everything. He had his roof inspected and the solar panels and surprisingly there was no damage. Then he offered that if I bought the materials to rebuild the fence, he would build it. I couldn't believe his offer. So, I agreed, purchased the materials, before he changed his mind, and he did the rest. I would have paid for the entire enchilada fence job because it was my responsibility. He was an atypical unbelievable good neighbor. A couple days later we were back to where we started before the tree trimming job.
I never used Nacho again. Postscript, he eventually was deported back to Mexico.
A couple years later there was a major storm and one of the big evergreen trees fell into the street. The city came out and removed it from the street (my taxpayer dollars at work). I hired a tree contractor and payed a couple thousand dollars to have it removed. My insurance paid for it. But another tree wasn't covered by insurance. It didn't fall but the tree contractor suggested I remove it; so I did. It was on my dime and that cost a couple thousand dollars which I paid.
Would only use Nacho types for landscaping and hauling. It ain't worth it.
I came out lucky in this experience but it could have been worse.
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