macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 0:21:25 GMT
You've got good things to say, mox, and I am sure you are right in many cases. The actions of the Democrats that you outline are only to be expected, given the deep partisan divide of America.
I'm sure you're proud of your father, and I agree. Many of my friends and workmates also served in Vietnam, no matter what a fiasco it was.
Just to round up, Trump's chronic lying has been documented extensively, not only by the "left", whatever that means. If you are unable to see that in many public cases his behaviour is "not quite right" then that's okay. The People will decide in November, I guess.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 0:37:03 GMT
Trump's "lying"?
1. China stealing US intellectual property for decades is a fact. 2. The US having the highest corporate taxes in the world driving businesses out of the US is a fact. 3. The Russiagate/Obamagate scandal is a factually documented fact. 4. The US military being in poor condition because of Obama's neglect is a fact. 5. Human trafficking via cartels that was being ignored at the border is a fact. 6. Obama's Fast and Furious program creating the most dangerous cartel in Mexico, the Zeta, is a fact. 7. Obama's Arab Spring policy destroyed Egypt's economy, turned Libya upside down and kicked off the Syria disaster is a fact. 8. N. Korea holding the US hostage for millions every year is a fact. 9. The UN and WHO -- for years -- should have been called on the carpet and defunded years ago and is a fact.
...and on and on. The only lying I've seen regarding Trump has been in international media -- the BBC, CNN International -- when traveling. The guy's been a disaster round women,
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 0:46:16 GMT
I've no doubt your Nasty Nine summary is true, TR. You know I have respect for your research.
Trump's lying on a daily basis has very little to do with it, actually. I've said it's documented.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 0:58:01 GMT
Please cite his 'daily lying' that is well documented, Macky.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 1:53:28 GMT
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 2:12:06 GMT
Sorry Macky, but, you can't use The Atlantic, The Washington Post, Fact Check, etc. Each of those have been confirmed to be "liberal" or "leftist" news sources by their own admission and by media analyst groups. The owner of the Post, Jeffrey Bezos, is a big Obama/Clinton fan and made the paper aware of his intentions regarding Trump from day one. The Atlantic? Used to be a great, balanced magazine. Its a liberal rag now and Politifact and Factcheck are a joke.
Again, I'm not a Trump apologist: he's done some questionable or wrong things. But, I don't go to biased, left wing sites when trying to validate facts.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 2:14:01 GMT
Another one...CNN and their "fact checks". There was a recording of Jeff Zucker, their CEO, openly saying he would use CNN against Trump.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 2:26:48 GMT
CNN caught
And November 2017, a similar video was made of the Washington Post.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 2:32:29 GMT
I rather expected those comments, and would concede they are most probably correct, politically-wise. One must then assume that because of bias, those itemized lies are not true ?
Of course they are true. They are in the public domain and many people remember them from TV programs etc.
Look at it this way, if those itemized lies were simply not true, knowing Trump's penchant for going after his "enemies", he would have taken them to court for "real" fake news by now. One of those sources was from last year. It's not a Covid 19 thing exclusively, it's part of Trump's modus operandi.
Those lies are there for all to see, that would google anything to do with Trump's chronic lying. Whether those sources are stated (at least they were honest about it) anti-Trump publications or not, said lies stand as a public record which to my knowledge has never been legally challenged.
They were not "editor's" opinions, they were clearly defined untruths uttered by the president. You can't simply dismiss them on the basis they came from sources which are not on Trump's birthday card list.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 2:32:32 GMT
Fairly objective site:
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 2:46:44 GMT
So what TR ? Like it says, "ratings do not reflect accuracy or credibility, they speak to bias only"
The facts of Trump's lying stand, no matter what publication they are from. I've said why in my last post. Anyway, one the links was Wiki. That has a stated policy of being as unbiased as possible.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 2:48:43 GMT
Macky, Because a biased media outlet calls a statement by Trump a "lie" because their pinhead reporter is a hack out of a left wing journalism school**, that automatically makes them a lie? Hmmm... (**And how can I say that, BTW? US universities have been polled at 90% of their staff has admitted to being extremely liberal (ref "Professors and Their Politics" 2014). Schools of journalism have a higher rate of liberal bias.) Who cares about his political enemies? How is that even relevant -- it isn't? Barack Obama openly and aggressively targeted political opponents via the IRS, Attorney General Eric Holder's actions (eg he nearly bankrupted Gibson Guitar on charges that were tossed out in a US Federal court as bogus), and, of course Obamagate. George Bush probably did but he was less overt than Clinton, Obama or Trump in his actions. If you don't realize the source of your information is biased and/or if you're going to rely on biased sources for your information regarding Trump, I think it would be fair to share with everyone how you've formed your opinion.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 3:04:00 GMT
So what TR ? Like it says, "ratings do not reflect accuracy or credibility, they speak to bias only" (1) The facts of Trump's lying stand, no matter what publication they are from. I've said why in my last post. Anyway, one the links was Wiki. That has a stated policy of being as unbiased as possible. (2) (1) Correct. And you're relying on bias. (2) Wiki is unbiased? Seriously? It is only as good or unbiased as the person creating the information and/or the information being posted. Gordon Anderson posted his tales of Swobby on Wikipedia -- think those were unbiased? I've found misinformation, bias on Wiki pages, logged in and corrected the information with references to validate the change. You also don't get the fact the publications you hold in such high esteem repeatedly gave the previous administration a pass on actions that would have landed Trump on the front cover with hell to pay. - The Post ignored the Obama/Clinton Uranium One scandal until it got so big even the NY Times ran the story and the Post finally gave it a mention. - The Post gave Susan Rice a free pass regarding her lies for nearly a month regarding the root cause of the Benghazi attacks on the US embassy -- not once, but, multiple times -- and finally published an article which allowed her to justify her lying. I saw Kris Tanto, one of the operators at Benghazi who helped stave off the attacks, at a book signing and he said Susan Rice is a lying scum who should be in prison for her actions. The Post gave her a pass... - The NY Times actually published some of the timeline regarding the Obamagate Steele Dossier, to include Hillary Clinton's involvement and admitted news sources like Fox News were actually correct. Not the Post.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 3:11:08 GMT
I am well aware of the bias of some of my sources. The question is then, "is the information that an anti-Trump publication posts actually true or not ?" You know...."did Trump go to the Moon ?" You well know the answer to that one don't you ? No matter whether the publication is left right or centre the answer/info is NO. Like the "Moon trip", the facts of Trump's lying stand alone from whatever the political bias of the reporting publication has. That's a plain fact. And heck, an avid pro-Trump publication would hardly report his lying would they ? Well in fact they did, at least a Fox chappie did, www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-tucker-carlson-fox-news-liar-inauguration-election-a9222061.htmlAnother thing, comparing Trump to Obama is irrelevant for one very good reason. I am not comparing the good things or bad things they have done. I'm not comparing Trump with anyone at all. I have stated a simple fact about an outstanding habit of Trump's. Trump is a chronic liar, well known, well documented. Chronic liars are not to be trusted. That's it.
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moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Jun 2, 2020 6:15:04 GMT
Sorry Macky, but, you can't use The Atlantic, The Washington Post, Fact Check, etc. Each of those have been confirmed to be "liberal" or "leftist" news sources by their own admission and by media analyst groups. The owner of the Post, Jeffrey Bezos, is a big Obama/Clinton fan and made the paper aware of his intentions regarding Trump from day one. The Atlantic? Used to be a great, balanced magazine. Its a liberal rag now and Politifact and Factcheck are a joke. Again, I'm not a Trump apologist: he's done some questionable or wrong things. But, I don't go to biased, left wing sites when trying to validate facts. The prominent news outlets of CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, NYT & The Washington Compost have repeatedly been caught in flagrant lies & forced to make retractions. If that doesn't move anyone then consider 2 points that is beyond dispute & is merely unaddressed by other journalistic peers: 1) All pushed the Russian Collision for 3 years. ALL declared incontrovertible proof of it. Documentation beats conversation. OIG Report corroborated the Mueller Report & more that the episode was an utter fabrication & there was no VALID predicate for the investigation, their sources were utter shit & they anyways knowingly submitted falsely sworn affidavits 4x to the FISA Court! 2)The Legacy MSM has had massive layoffs. 8k journalists cut since the Mueller Report was released. The NYT closed down half their famous building because sales plummeted. CNN & the Washington Compost have reduced their force by 1/3 due to sales. Rachael Maddow viewership averages 500k since the Mueller Report & she had incontrovertible proof of collusion due to be released for 3 years. Her ratings tanked after the Mueller Report. Ratings don't tank like that because truth speaks to power. They tank due to BS. The one who couldn't deliver on a promise.
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