Abs: people are wasting their time!

[justregularguy]

Is it just me or are 99% of these ab workouts on youtube fucking useless?

Sit-ups, crunches, leg raises on the ground, regular planks, mountain climbers are a huge waste of time. Those exercises are simply way too easy and/or they invite using momentum/cheating and poor form way too much + can hurt your lower back for that reason. Yet I see them in every core workout. Guys you are wasting your time!

Hanging leg raises, L-sit holds, ab wheel rollouts, palloff presses those are the exercises that give you great core activation and really build muscle. Everyone can do a palloff press, just use a weak resistance band if your core is weak. If you can't do leg raises do knee raises instead, everyone can do those. Some hamstring stretches in between and eventually you'll be able to get to the L-sit and hold it. Then you'll be able to do leg raises. Everyone can train with the ab wheel too. Just forget your ego and roll out maybe only 20 or 30cm with proper form and work your way up to a full rollout. Everyone can do that. Those are hard exercises and even the easier progressions towards those exercises will give you more gains than doing 200 crunches or holding a plank for 2 minutes. I've tried it all and that's what I can tell you from my experience. It's simple really, you work towards doing hard exercises and when you can actually do those hard exercises you build more muscle with those than easy exercises, it makes sense really. Abs are muscles and muscles grow more in lower rep ranges which you will operate in when you do the exercises I mentioned above.

It's also much harder to cheat doing leg raises or L-sit holds. I mean you can either get your legs up and/or hold them there, or you don't. Even with momentum it's gonna be very hard to hold the contraction at the top of the motion. With the palloff press I cannot see how you could possibly cheat, the band/cable is pulling on you, you either can stay square as you push your arms out and work against the rotation or you don't. With the ab wheel you just gotta really round your upper and lower back and maintain that position as you roll foward and back. Work entirely out of your core and use your arms only as a connection from the ab wheel to your core.

Why are people still doing ineffective core exercises ?

[mr potatohead]

I recommend that no one ever place hands behind head when doing any type of situp. Put them on your chest, touch your shoulders - whatever is comfortable, but not behind your head. The tendency is to pull when hands are behind head and this is an injury to your neck waiting to happen, especially as you tire.

[Dave Reslo]

I'm sure there are some good fitness-based reasons to do a load of crunches just as there are some good reasons to do a load of bodyweight squats etc. but for the results most people are after I have to agree with JRG.

I've said before what strengthened my torso most has been weighted carries, but I know these aren't always a practical option.

[justregularguy]

May 1, 2019 14:55:23 GMT Dave Reslo said:

I'm sure there are some good fitness-based reasons to do a load of crunches just as there are some good reasons to do a load of bodyweight squats etc. but for the results most people are after I have to agree with JRG.

I've said before what strengthened my torso most has been weighted carries, but I know these aren't always a practical option.

That definitely makes sense! Many bodybuilders and strongman just train so heavy with squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, farmers walk etc. their core pretty much builds itself. They don't need to do ab exercises

[justregularguy]

May 1, 2019 11:34:27 GMT @thinman said:

Have you tried strict weighted sit-ups ? weight behind head.

Try this, lay on the floor with calves up on a chair, place a weight on the ankles to keep them in place. Hands behind head, come up and touch right knee with left elbow, repeat right elbow to left knee, see how many you can do. Not a speed race, use control, no jerking.

Have you tried these . . .

Yes I've tried situps and I don't know what it is with this exercise but it just doesn't feel right to me. It feels uncomfortable in my lower back and I feel like it's not very effective, but everyone is different.

[justregularguy]

May 1, 2019 15:33:08 GMT @thinman said:

When I do double Zottman curls (both ways, inwards and outwards) I don't anchor my elbows and can feel the core engage a fair bit.

What I always do when I do biceps curls or overhead presses, I activate my glutes to bring my lower back in a neutral position which prevents me from arching my lower back. This becomes quite important as the weights become heavier. If I do an overhead press and the weight is heavy enough, I can sometimes really feel my abs and glutes working

[justregularguy]

What I don't like about ab exercise with your back on the ground is.. it's too easy to cheat and use momentum to get more reps. Exercises like sit-ups and crunches are super inviting for cheating, with bad form I could probably do 200 situps in a row without problems. I would just quickly swing my upper body up with momentum and let the hip flexors do 90% of the work. It's too easy to cheat and chase for numbers instead of really focusing on the abs doing slow controled quality reps. I think there's harder, better, more effective choices of ab exercises that are less inviting for cheating and bad form.

[Michael]

May 1, 2019 18:34:14 GMT justregularguy said:

May 1, 2019 15:33:08 GMT @thinman said:

When I do double Zottman curls (both ways, inwards and outwards) I don't anchor my elbows and can feel the core engage a fair bit.

What I always do when I do biceps curls or overhead presses, I activate my glutes to bring my lower back in a neutral position which prevents me from arching my lower back. This becomes quite important as the weights become heavier. If I do an overhead press and the weight is heavy enough, I can sometimes really feel my abs and glutes working

JRG, You use weights? I thought You only used cables. You can do the same with cables.

[Michael]

You can engage Your abs on most exercises like overhead presses, chins, carries, get-ups, etc... But what Dave said, "I'm sure there are some good fitness-based reasons to do a load of crunches just as there are some good reasons to do a load of bodyweight squats etc", makes sense. Some people wouldn't be able to do some of the exercises the JRG mentioned maybe because of injury, age, disability, or level of ability. Some exercises jack me up. Why would You do something that's going to hurt You? Progressions may sound easy to some but for others, they may never progress on certain exercises. I don't believe in everyone should do the same ab exercises.

I know he mentioned the crunch and plank as being bad. I do the Stuart McGill Big 3 everyday, which consists of Front and Side Planks. I haven't injured my back since I started doing these steady. If I feel like doing specific ab work I do the Frog Crunch, some of Nick Nillson's exercises or the Janda situp which if done right take the hip flexors out of the exercises. But my main ab work (which is like a weighted sit up but full body) is doing the Turkish Get Up with my 70lb KB. No matter what You do it should feel good and not hurt You.

[Mr Average]

Whole body movements, the body is supposed to be used as a unit. So there is no real need to break it down to separate body parts IMO. If someone moves their body properly, there are no need for abdominal exercises.

[Dave Reslo]

May 1, 2019 18:46:20 GMT justregularguy said:

What I don't like about ab exercise with your back on the ground is.. it's too easy to cheat and use momentum to get more reps. Exercises like sit-ups and crunches are super inviting for cheating, with bad form I could probably do 200 situps in a row without problems. I would just quickly swing my upper body up with momentum and let the hip flexors do 90% of the work. It's too easy to cheat and chase for numbers instead of really focusing on the abs doing slow controled quality reps. I think there's harder, better, more effective choices of ab exercises that are less inviting for cheating and bad form.

You could try Janda situps, where there is something trying to pull your lower legs up (use a cable looped round between your ankles and the wall). This is the opposite from most situps, where you might try and get something to pin your feet down. Supposedly there is some mechanism whereby the hip hip flexors are then forced to relax and the abs do all the work. They did seem to work for me but I haven't pursued them for years.

See this video or download Pavel's "bulletproof abs" ebook for details:


Or, just keep doing what you are doing, since it is working.

[Michael]

Here's how You can do the Janda Sit up with Bruce's top quality and cheap bands.

[Bruce Tackett]

My ab routine takes just about 60 seconds. I stand a bully on end on a stool and hold the top handle with both hands, arms out straight, and then push down on the bully, engaging my abs, essentially creating a crunch. Next I stand sideways to the bully and push down with one hand for my obliques, performing this on both sides. I've been doing this for over ten years, now. A couple of years ago I started finishing it off with a stomach vacuum.

[justregularguy]

May 1, 2019 20:03:59 GMT Michael said:

May 1, 2019 18:34:14 GMT justregularguy said:

What I always do when I do biceps curls or overhead presses, I activate my glutes to bring my lower back in a neutral position which prevents me from arching my lower back. This becomes quite important as the weights become heavier. If I do an overhead press and the weight is heavy enough, I can sometimes really feel my abs and glutes working

JRG, You use weights? I thought You only used cables. You can do the same with cables.

Yes I use weights for overhead presses, floor chest flys and lateral raises. Everything else I do with bands. I think in those particular exercises free weights are better because they are less restrictive in the way you can move than bands. It's the total opposite for many other exercises though

[mr potatohead]

Dammit Dave! Youtube won't let me watch the video, m8!