moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Oct 25, 2020 5:37:00 GMT
Well I haven't watched the debate, so all I can say at this point is that because it's you Pierini, I believe you. Good on Trump then. Now if he only behaves sensibly for the next four years (assuming he gets in) then my opinion (it's only an opinion) may change. My suspicion is that for once he listened to his advisors who told him in no uncertain terms that his first debate with Biden did him a lot of damage, and if he doesn't pull his head in this time, he'll stand an even better chance of losing the election. Of course, Trump will always have the Covid thing over his head, and there certainly will be quite a number of US citizens who will never forgive him. I'll watch the debate later when I get home and comment further. Promise. The most vociferous & vituperous criticism of federal COVID-19 response time & policies comes from democratically held stronghold states & cities who incidentally returned all their test positive citizens back to nursing homes. They are have the largest populations too. Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Detriot...all large hubs & staunch democratic strongholds too. This why HRC won the popular vote (including dead voters & illegals) by a significant margin yet lost the Electoral College(EC). HRC deliberately blew off the smaller states & cities as she thought she had it locked in. She didn't. It wasn't the Russians that cost her the election, it was her campaign manager. The EC worked exactly as intended because the EC does not marginalize their smaller respective voting power & by extension their regional concerns. Now u have the "National Popular Vote Interstate Compact" (NPVIC) which has been enacted by 16 states (all democratic) which throws away people's votes by selling out their votes by the more favored political caucus over the will of the voting public. If those major population hubs win the popular vote for the favored candidate then the compact states will swing their vote towards that candidate regardless of how that state voted. The NPVIC circumvents the EC & gives the large pop. hubs a powerful voting block to override the rural areas & smaller cities/states. A big hearty F.U.to them all & marginalized too. How is that democracy in action? It's no different then the Enabling Act voted in by the Reichstag to benefit the corporate oligarchic dictatorship run by Der Fuhrer (Democrats). U don't have to be for or against Trump to understand this. It's obvious to anyone with a 10 year olds portion of common sense.
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macky
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Post by macky on Oct 25, 2020 7:24:02 GMT
You know jolly well mikey that when people/authorities/etc talk about Covid 19, they are also referring to the pandemic as it has become, the two terms meaning the same thing, currently. If someone talks about the pandemic, they are referring to Covid 19.
Re the kool aid, I posted that I read the Fox news reports about the debate as well as the Washpost in order to gain a balanced viewpoint on opinions from the "right" and "left" on the debate.
Re racism, I also mentioned in my post "on ALL sides", so I'm not necessarily pushing for any particular racial type, black, yellow, white, purple, whatever.
Re the pandemic which you call fake, the numbers around the world continue to rise, don't they ? If it's not a pandemic, then what is going on ? You've been in denial of Covid 19 being a serious emergency right from the start, so please post some constructive evidence that the pandemic is not actually a pandemic. And some better calculations that most everybody else in the world, that define at what point over a million deaths and 42 million cases will reach the level where it CAN be called a pandemic.
Everybody's entitled to their opinions and thoughts on the matter, and you've come up with some pretty solid research over these last months, but straight-out denial of what is regarded as a pandemic does not provide a decent reason for why the Covid 19 emergency is not a pandemic, in your book.
In the meantime, America is in deep trouble. If it can't front anything better for president than a chronic dreamer who routinely tells complete fabrications, and a guy who should have retired to his local garden society after his vice-presidency, then the Fifty States Of America will decline into just another country in the world where 4% of the global population will be 4% of global influence, and China takes over as Number One on the world stage.
The American dollar as virtually the world's reserve currency has been taking hits for at least ten years now, and this nice little earner for the States has found itself as payments that were once good as gold, to refusal on tourist attractions and in competition with the Euro etc. Being a fiat currency, it's value is only that what the global people hold it to be, and once that's gone, then the massive US debt becomes a problem because America can no longer produce 25% of the world's business to "keep the ball rolling". That's another important issue, THE most important actually for America.
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macky
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Oct 25, 2020 7:32:37 GMT
Post by macky on Oct 25, 2020 7:32:37 GMT
Well I haven't watched the debate, so all I can say at this point is that because it's you Pierini, I believe you. Good on Trump then. Now if he only behaves sensibly for the next four years (assuming he gets in) then my opinion (it's only an opinion) may change. My suspicion is that for once he listened to his advisors who told him in no uncertain terms that his first debate with Biden did him a lot of damage, and if he doesn't pull his head in this time, he'll stand an even better chance of losing the election. Of course, Trump will always have the Covid thing over his head, and there certainly will be quite a number of US citizens who will never forgive him. I'll watch the debate later when I get home and comment further. Promise. The most vociferous & vituperous criticism of federal COVID-19 response time & policies comes from democratically held stronghold states & cities who incidentally returned all their test positive citizens back to nursing homes. They are have the largest populations too. Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Detriot...all large hubs & staunch democratic strongholds too. This why HRC won the popular vote (including dead voters & illegals) by a significant margin yet lost the Electoral College(EC). HRC deliberately blew off the smaller states & cities as she thought she had it locked in. She didn't. It wasn't the Russians that cost her the election, it was her campaign manager. The EC worked exactly as intended because the EC does not marginalize their smaller respective voting power & by extension their regional concerns. Now u have the "National Popular Vote Interstate Compact" (NPVIC) which has been enacted by 16 states (all democratic) which throws away people's votes by selling out their votes by the more favored political caucus over the will of the voting public. If those major population hubs win the popular vote for the favored candidate then the compact states will swing their vote towards that candidate regardless of how that state voted. The NPVIC circumvents the EC & gives the large pop. hubs a powerful voting block to override the rural areas & smaller cities/states. A big hearty F.U.to them all & marginalized too. How is that democracy in action? It's no different then the Enabling Act voted in by the Reichstag to benefit the corporate oligarchic dictatorship run by Der Fuhrer (Democrats). U don't have to be for or against Trump to understand this. It's obvious to anyone with a 10 year olds portion of common sense. Good. A scholarly review that also compares America with Nazi Germany, which I have done in the past myself, and the sheer number of voters both ways who do not have a 10 year old's portion of common sense simply because the average voter for or against Trump or Biden would not have an ounce of understanding of the above review by Mox, although HRC has nothing to do with how voters are behaving currently, the choice not being HRC or anything she has done.
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moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Oct 25, 2020 9:07:03 GMT
"Good. A scholarly review that also compares America with Nazi Germany, which I have done in the past myself, and the sheer number of voters both ways who do not have a 10 year old's portion of common sense simply because the average voter for or against Trump or Biden would not have an ounce of understanding of the above review by Mox," <<<<<U can fool some of the people all the time & all of the people some of the time but u can never fool all of the people all of the time! These were spoken by a venerated white supremacist: Abe Lincoln. The American mainstream public is slowly stirring to the constant barrage of bullshit fed to them since the Vietnam Era. What ur seeing now is a worldwide backlash to 70 years of globalism trends & the American public isn't buying into it anymore. The U. S. Democratic party & RINO'S have been leading the corporate globalist parade for a very long time. Ppl are tired of the same old & voting with their pocket book & feet.>>>>>
"although HRC has nothing to do with how voters are behaving currently, the choice not being HRC or anything she has done." <<<<<A non-sequitur comment here. I don't see the relevance? My mention of HRC is because she an element & example of how the Electoral College (EC) is supposed to work. HRC didn't target the whole country. She mostly targeted special interest groups in the largest demographic areas that would benefit her the most. Trump actually targeted the whole country & across demographics to win the vote. HRC railed against the EC as somehow outdated & had been fiendishly manipulated if not outright illegally. That's only true if ur not a federal republic & simply a unitary state with autonomous regions like the UK which can be simply devolved by an Act of Parliament. Only THEN...proportional representation WOULD apply. Such is not the case with the USA because the states are sovereign entities. The fact that HRC was & still is a bad candidate is another topic altogether. My interest in Trump is not because I'm a supporter, although I clearly am, it's because I have a vested interest in an economically & morally strong America that doesn't drape itself in "American exceptionalism" & the flag. Canada is the USA's number 1 trading partner & shares her borders with her. So, obviously there's a heavy influence there that can't be denied. What use have we got for a weak, emaciated morally inferior neighbor that can drag us down with her? None! The U. S. Democratic Party has started & been a catalyst in every war since WW2. Canada had 30k volunteers that served in Vietnam of which my dad was part of. I would have preferred Ron Paul over Trump any day. I was initially against Trump not because of his platform or record but because I thought he would be a lame duck presidency like JFK for his entire term or Seinfeld presidency like Obama. I preferred Obama over McCain because McCain was a warmongering peice of shit who never had a war he didn't like. He offed alot of ppl both foreign & domestic because of his batshit policies & indulgent support for criminal warlord thugs. There is not the hottest place enough in Hell for him & it doesn't speak well of AZ voters either.>>>>>
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macky
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Oct 26, 2020 4:53:55 GMT
Post by macky on Oct 26, 2020 4:53:55 GMT
Yes Mox, fair enough, but my criticisms of Trump (and luke-warm regard for Biden) have centered around his non-response to Covid-19, and his apparent almost-daily utterances that indicate someone that has a view of reality for which there simply is no evidence. Among those utterances are references to the media as "enemy of the people" etc which is fairly typical of a dictator type, of which Trump has also demonstrated he seems to be.
His failure to deny serious conspiracy theories such as QAnon (which he has sent on to multiple Twitter accounts), his rallies which boil down to criticizing his opposition, and further saying nothing much of any import, plus his refusal even post-illness to take the Covid 19 virus seriously shows someone who frankly lives in his own world.
It's blanket denial, backed by Trumpisms that are simply not true, and reflected on here by various posters as though somehow Trump's attitude has filtered down to ordinary citizens. He denies climate change even though America's own space agency puts a lot of effort into monitoring the world's life-signs, and whose research goes back to at least the beginning of the Industrial Age.
Trump ignores all that, because he wants things the way they were, not what they are becoming. His world-vision is not viable and refuses to concede that yes the world HAS changed now.
This guy, no matter what else he has or hasn't done for America re other issues, is a very dangerous person. That danger is presented right in everyone's face every time he makes these Moon-gazing comments. He is not well in the bell-tower, but the bells keep on ringing.
If we had politicians that talked like that they would be gone by lunchtime, yet Americans and other Trump supporters lap it all up as though he's some demi-god or something.
Tomorrow the US will have at least 8.9 million cases and over 231,000 deaths The cases are going up in many areas of the world, Yet Trump has no plan post-election (assuming he wins a second term) to try and handle the virus, instead keeps on talking about opening up more of America because "we can't have the cure worse than the disease" or words to that effect.
In his world, the virus will simply "go away" and "the problem won't exist after the election". What kind of country's leader talks like that, and where their country is not in hot water ?
By Trump's behaviour it is obvious that he attempts to create his own world at his whim. That's not happening as we speak, and the polls will most likely reflect that when all the votes are counted. I don't have much confidence in Biden either frankly, which is why I believe America is in trouble, whoever wins. In fact, given the rioting over the last months, I would bet there will be more of the same thing post-election.
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pierinifitness
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Oct 26, 2020 12:35:58 GMT
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Post by pierinifitness on Oct 26, 2020 12:35:58 GMT
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brothersteve
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Post by brothersteve on Oct 26, 2020 15:26:37 GMT
Just my opinion: At the end of the voting day, I say Trump wins. Not that I want him to - just saying.
I think both of these 'cutouts' are way 'out there'.
America is being pushed into a major change (New World Order?) and the engine pushing isn't going to stop until it's done. Seems like a revolution is coming as people are angry all over, COVID freaking a lot of folks out, and the economy withering, taking guns and ammo out of citizens hands. I hope not.
Pelosi and Schumer up to no good - need them out.
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macky
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Post by macky on Oct 26, 2020 20:19:04 GMT
Just to perhaps satisfy the partisans, both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame for much of the blundering in the early days of the virus in America. Headed of course by the nation's leader's outright denial of the whole thing.
The ignoring and distrust of science that has appeared over the last months/years, favouring conspiracy theories with no evidence and the slavish near-worship of a Moongazing alt-reality proponent is a dangerous trend that seems to be sweeping America with increasing popularity, and his election opponent who seems to forget who he's talking about reinforces my opinion that America is in double trouble.
An example is Atlas coming in as Trump's latest yes-man re the virus advice, a radiologist not any expert in epidemic control whatsoever.
It's significant that the country was unified as one when they swallowed the US govt Official Story of the alleged perps and head man of the 9-11 attacks, a story without any solid evidence whatsoever, but now under an enemy that cannot be shot at with any of the 390 million guns in civilian hands, has descended into deep divisions literally left, right, and centre.
The Covid 19 pandemic has more than ever before exposed the worst failure of US governance in modern times, with the People left angry, confused, subject to any half-arsed conspiracy theory such as QAnon, and deeply divided among themselves on all fronts, a dangerous exposure not lost on America's opponents such as Russia and China.
The failure of Trump and his administration is hallmarked by the number of White House (supposed to be the safest place in the land) staff who have become infected, including Trump himself.
The deep divisions among the American People have not been rallied together by a strong leader in this time of global emergency. Those divisions have been exploited by a self-serving individual who has proven himself not fit to recognize science, ignoring ever-increasing cases and deaths by the day in his own country, and reality in general.
The economy of the US could have been on its way to recovery if the Covid emergency had been dealt with competently from the start, with cluster-isolating measures, tracing (e.g.) in place instead of wholesale lockdowns while carriers (aircraft flights) are overhead spreading the virus anyway.
Instead, the leader's denial of scientists and doctor specialists, the divisions even among them, has placed both the economy and the public safety of the United States in jeopardy, lead by Trump who the States had the greatest misfortune to be President at the same time the virus hit the world.
P.S. I'm not saying brothersteve is wrong either. The New World Order is a logical consequence of the ability to travel to the other side of the world in a day, the Net, global financial transactions (FOREX) that sweep the Globe with billions of dollars every day, international corporatism and influence.
Countries' borders are only geographical now, and have been for a long time.
Once the financial cartels (Fed Res etc) sort themselves out and unify, that will be essentially a One World Order, despite any military action going on as a showcase for the world public to focus on. The financial/corporate sector has played both sides in wars such as WW2 with IBM (for one) supporting Hitler and his genocide programs. 9-11 was essentially about the removal of Hussein and re-consolidation of the American dollar as Reserve currency of the world in the Middle East, which actually apart from the Covid emergency, is Trump's greatest failure to secure. The very thing Trump wanted to be known for re his re-election (the economy), slipped away from him because he didn't want to recognize a threat from the Outside which would diminish his efforts. That might well be the underlying reason for his several bankruptcies. His inability to perceive reality when it's not his own, because he was brought up by his father to never lose.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 27, 2020 0:00:58 GMT
Just to perhaps satisfy the partisans, both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame for much of the blundering in the early days of the virus in America. Headed of course by the nation's leader's outright denial of the whole thing. The ignoring and distrust of science that has appeared over the last months/years, favouring conspiracy theories with no evidence and the slavish near-worship of a Moongazing alt-reality proponent is a dangerous trend that seems to be sweeping America with increasing popularity, and his election opponent who seems to forget who he's talking about reinforces my opinion that America is in double trouble. An example is Atlas coming in as Trump's latest yes-man re the virus advice, a radiologist not any expert in epidemic control whatsoever. It's significant that the country was unified as one when they swallowed the US govt Official Story of the alleged perps and head man of the 9-11 attacks, a story without any solid evidence whatsoever, but now under an enemy that cannot be shot at with any of the 390 million guns in civilian hands, has descended into deep divisions literally left, right, and centre. The Covid 19 pandemic has more than ever before exposed the worst failure of US governance in modern times, with the People left angry, confused, subject to any half-arsed conspiracy theory such as QAnon, and deeply divided among themselves on all fronts, a dangerous exposure not lost on America's opponents such as Russia and China. The failure of Trump and his administration is hallmarked by the number of White House (supposed to be the safest place in the land) staff who have become infected, including Trump himself. The deep divisions among the American People have not been rallied together by a strong leader in this time of global emergency. Those divisions have been exploited by a self-serving individual who has proven himself not fit to recognize science, ignoring ever-increasing cases and deaths by the day in his own country, and reality in general. The economy of the US could have been on its way to recovery if the Covid emergency had been dealt with competently from the start, with cluster-isolating measures, tracing (e.g.) in place instead of wholesale lockdowns while carriers (aircraft flights) are overhead spreading the virus anyway. Instead, the leader's denial of scientists and doctor specialists, the divisions even among them, has placed both the economy and the public safety of the United States in jeopardy, lead by Trump who the States had the greatest misfortune to be President at the same time the virus hit the world. P.S. I'm not saying brothersteve is wrong either. The New World Order is a logical consequence of the ability to travel to the other side of the world in a day, the Net, global financial transactions (FOREX) that sweep the Globe with billions of dollars every day, international corporatism and influence. Countries' borders are only geographical now, and have been for a long time. Once the financial cartels (Fed Res etc) sort themselves out and unify, that will be essentially a One World Order, despite any military action going on as a showcase for the world public to focus on. The financial/corporate sector has played both sides in wars such as WW2 with IBM (for one) supporting Hitler and his genocide programs. 9-11 was essentially about the removal of Hussein and re-consolidation of the American dollar as Reserve currency of the world in the Middle East, which actually apart from the Covid emergency, is Trump's greatest failure to secure. The very thing Trump wanted to be known for re his re-election (the economy), slipped away from him because he didn't want to recognize a threat from the Outside which would diminish his efforts. That might well be the underlying reason for his several bankruptcies. His inability to perceive reality when it's not his own, because he was brought up by his father to never lose. Oh, the drama!
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macky
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Oct 27, 2020 0:36:05 GMT
Post by macky on Oct 27, 2020 0:36:05 GMT
I think it's comical really. There's a sad aspect to it, but really what Trump sez, not to mention his opponent, is hilarious.
One is busy fabricating his latest view of reality, unproven but true in the minds of his adoring crowd, some of whom are armed to the teeth for the "coming civil war".
The other can't remember who he was talking about two minutes ago.
As it refers to the US election candidates, in the words of Joe Frazier in his first fight with Ali after Ali had hit him with eight of his best shots, shaking his head "Is that all ya got ?".
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Oct 27, 2020 0:40:39 GMT
Whether he’s re-elected or not, President Trump’s legacy will be his U.S. Supreme Court Justices. The Donald strikes again. The Senate just confirmed Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
Great job President Trump!
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macky
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Post by macky on Oct 27, 2020 1:01:27 GMT
To be fair, I was disgusted about some of the things social media was saying about her. There's a difference between evidenced criticism and plain excuse to abuse.
She asserted that she was there to apply the law to her very best, free from partisan considerations. The People should give her a fair chance to prove it, not go all stupid about it. Trump appointed her, that's it.
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pierinifitness
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Oct 27, 2020 22:37:50 GMT
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Post by pierinifitness on Oct 27, 2020 22:37:50 GMT
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macky
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Oct 28, 2020 7:46:20 GMT
Post by macky on Oct 28, 2020 7:46:20 GMT
Trump's got 4 years of questionable utterances recorded on video and in print.
The whole world's watching the shambles, hoping that the (current ) most powerful nation on Earth gets its act together post-election, no matter who wins.
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Debate
Oct 28, 2020 13:49:44 GMT
Post by mr potatohead on Oct 28, 2020 13:49:44 GMT
You know jolly well mikey that when people/authorities/etc talk about Covid 19, they are also referring to the pandemic as it has become, the two terms meaning the same thing, currently. If someone talks about the pandemic, they are referring to Covid 19. Re the kool aid, I posted that I read the Fox news reports about the debate as well as the Washpost in order to gain a balanced viewpoint on opinions from the "right" and "left" on the debate. Re racism, I also mentioned in my post "on ALL sides", so I'm not necessarily pushing for any particular racial type, black, yellow, white, purple, whatever. Re the pandemic which you call fake, the numbers around the world continue to rise, don't they ? If it's not a pandemic, then what is going on ? You've been in denial of Covid 19 being a serious emergency right from the start, so please post some constructive evidence that the pandemic is not actually a pandemic. And some better calculations that most everybody else in the world, that define at what point over a million deaths and 42 million cases will reach the level where it CAN be called a pandemic. Everybody's entitled to their opinions and thoughts on the matter, and you've come up with some pretty solid research over these last months, but straight-out denial of what is regarded as a pandemic does not provide a decent reason for why the Covid 19 emergency is not a pandemic, in your book. In the meantime, America is in deep trouble. If it can't front anything better for president than a chronic dreamer who routinely tells complete fabrications, and a guy who should have retired to his local garden society after his vice-presidency, then the Fifty States Of America will decline into just another country in the world where 4% of the global population will be 4% of global influence, and China takes over as Number One on the world stage. The American dollar as virtually the world's reserve currency has been taking hits for at least ten years now, and this nice little earner for the States has found itself as payments that were once good as gold, to refusal on tourist attractions and in competition with the Euro etc. Being a fiat currency, it's value is only that what the global people hold it to be, and once that's gone, then the massive US debt becomes a problem because America can no longer produce 25% of the world's business to "keep the ball rolling". That's another important issue, THE most important actually for America. It should be obvious by now that I'm not in that group of "people". This is part of the MSM spin-up problem. The assertions and associations they vomit which make it nearly impossible to unscramble the MSM Public Health Religion BS that's been planted in some peoples' brains. There is no "pandemic". There is a nasty flu. Last I read (in Oct '20) there are 1.12 million deaths world-wide due to CV, a one-off situation. Meanwhile, EVERY YEAR, 1.35 million people die in swimming pools and drowning incidents. Do their lives not matter because the flu didn't kill them? What has happened to our ability to objectively evaluate data and make logical, common sense decisions? Nope, the advertised "pandemic" is just media hyped up hysteria. Fox News, Washington Post, etc, etc, MSM is MSM. The number of deaths don't even justify an "epidemic", but "pandemic"? Foggetaboutit. It's a nasty seasonal flu. No big deal. Protect the vulnerable - the elderly and severely immune compromised (The Great Barrington Declaration). Use the drugs that are working already for doctors and patients. Let everyone else go about their business as usual and drop the MSM panic drama focus. I'm just echoing what top medical professionals and scientists around the world are now pushing for. Research: Dr Elke De Klerk, Doctors for Truth, recent lawsuit by tens of thousands of doctors internationally, suing the Netherlands. Read: The Case Against Masks by Dr Judy Mikovits and Kent Heckenlively, J.D. No, they are near zero deaths from the CV flu and have been for a while. That's what fake looks like. BTW, I recently heard that people who habitually wear a mask ..... like that old guy I saw who was alone, driving, wearing a mask ....?.... If he went in for the PCR test he would be positive due to his immune system reaction to the bacteria/CO2 trap over his face. I've heard that the habitual mask wearers - i.e. health care workers and Religion of Public Health fanatics - are sick or test positive for immune system activation (the CV PCR test) in higher numbers than the unmasked. Can anyone prove that statement to be false with data? If so, I'd like to read it, copy/pasted here on the forum.
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