pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Feb 18, 2020 15:43:55 GMT
This is a great video, a little long but if you have time to view it (even if in bits and pieces), you'll likely enjoy it. The older turds here, and there are many, will enjoy the blasts from the pasts, remembering the Count Dante comic book ads. Kato, from the Green Hornet, had a huge impact on the martial arts interest in the 1960s; mention of this appears to be missing from the video.
I remember reading Black Belt magazine as a teenager and following the tournament scene which was very competitive. George Dillman, the dim mak "master" mentioned in this video, was an accomplished tournament fighter before moving on into the direction he did.
What I notice about many of these death touch masters is the belly girth they pack. Maybe they should consider trying a belly bounce technique for their death touch. Had a couple buddies years ago that would engage in friendly exchanges of belly bouncing almost like a couple rams going at it. It was fun to watch.
Anyway, if you've got some idle time, I think you might enjoy this video which was put together well.
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Post by fredhutch on Feb 18, 2020 16:12:04 GMT
Well I never knocked anyone over without touching them, but once I made somebody poop his pants by pointing my hand at him. He didn't think it was as funny as I did.
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Post by stormshadow on Feb 20, 2020 3:49:31 GMT
Well I never knocked anyone over without touching them, but once I made somebody poop his pants by pointing my hand at him. He didn't think it was as funny as I did. Fred that happens frequently if the pointing hand is holding a gun. Gunless is very impressive.
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Post by chanduthemagician on Feb 20, 2020 4:41:24 GMT
So people think this is real? They probably bet on professional wrestling matches too.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Feb 26, 2020 3:22:05 GMT
In this world of fake martial arts, it's nice to know that there is someone who is the real deal. Someone who stands out above the rest. Some who is Real - Master Ken.
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 6, 2020 6:47:14 GMT
Martial Arts are all about lethal unarmed, and armed combat. The various types had serious origins, such as Wing Chun, designed by a Buddhist nun as a close-combat set of fast techniques designed to put smaller and weaker ladies on equal footing with bigger stronger bandits. Or karate ('open-hand') strong direct thrusts by hardened mitts designed to penetrate bamboo armour of soldiers by peasants who also took farm implements and turned them into weapons, they being forbidden to carry normal weapons.
You simply can't have a dojo full of full-power lethal techniques being practiced. Eye finger thrusts or throat chops, groin kneeing, clawing, head butting all have to be outlawed both in training and in contests if you want all your members to come back next week. Even full-contact has rules that forbid many targets.
And that's the real quandary of martial arts. Because of that, we have a watered down resemblance to the original forms of the style, prohibited techniques, pulled punches etc.
One can imagine that it is possible that someone of old who was taught a few techniques and went back home to practice them by him/herself would one day find themselves in combat for the very first time, said combat lethal, with only one survivor. Perhaps neither surviving their injuries.
There would be no rules. Nowadays, the so-called MMA, which is really nothing more than brawling, still has rules which prevent (hopefully) death and permanent injury. It's not mixed martial arts at all. It's not Martial for a start. Mixed techniques, yes. Arts......I would say no. Others may disagree.
Martial is all about warring. Not sport. If there were any authentic martial arts applied today, it would be the combat techniques of special forces, or soldiers. Using a gun in combat is a martial art, as is a knife (in the military), or bare hands.
Kata would be close to martial arts techniques, but when the chips have been down, kata have often flown out the window in a flurry of fists and pain. I've seen a few karate practitioners with years of kumite experience go to pieces when hit to the floor by an accidental punch. From the point of view of fighting, all their training means very little.
Boxers know how to take punches and keep fighting. A couple of my mates from years ago took up about six months of boxing (as I did) and had all their fights in the gym (as I did) with no pulling punches, then joined a "martial arts" dojo (as I did not), taking their experience of what it was like to fight under duress, albeit once again, with rules.
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Post by fredhutch on Mar 6, 2020 15:31:42 GMT
Right on Macky. Tying together the two themes here of chi power and actual combat, I heartily recommend Kenichi Sawai's book "Taiki-Ken: Essence of Kung Fu". Anyone interested in chi power for actual combat should read this book. To make a long discussion brief, Sawai says that when a real combat takes place, it will not be anything like what you actually practiced in the dojo...the physical elements, the environment, and even the mental state or psychology of the encounter will all be different. With developed internal energy, though, the internal energy will automatically select the correct course of action for the particular situation you are in. That is, the internal energy has what could be called an intelligence of its own. My own limited experience convinces me that this theory is correct. I have had bursts of energy come from the dantian while under stress, and shoot into my arms, and this is not something I can do consciously; I regard the cultivated internal energy as a loyal subordinate who will act to protect me without any conscious direction from me. I have spoken to baguazhang students who have used their art in a sudden violent encounter, more than one told me that the attack started and then they had no recollection of the fight at all, but they found their attacker lying unconscious.
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 7, 2020 21:24:00 GMT
Fred is an experienced source of information when it comes to chi kung and its applications to health and combat. While many trainers and otherwise right-thinking people may be skeptical about chi kung and the power that can be gained from regular but careful practice of chi kung etc, there is a wide selection of anecdotes (genuine, not the often BS stories of dreamers or scammers) that deserve closer inspection, that is, if one is interested in discussing such a vast subject from the point of view of an informed researcher, not merely a believer (or non-believer).
Chi is nothing more or less than bio-electricity, our true life-force which the ancients (and modern-day researchers) examined and while presumably not knowing what electricity was, still managed to develop over hundreds (thousands?) of years techniques both physical and mental that enhanced combat efficiency, mental expansion, and health.
It has in fact been solidly researched in China and Taiwan by accomplished western-trained medical people, scientists etc, and conclusions are that Chi exists as a trainable energy using the conscious mind while using movements both calisthenic and combat techniques, and visualization of said Chi/EM/bio-electricity in areas pertaining to purpose. In addition, seated meditation/chi kung (or static stances) are well-known with expansive historical references.
This visualization is not mere imagination or fantasy, it is deliberate imaging (say as a white or golden mist) of something which actually exists. We live in a magnetic field (Earth's) all our lives and are tuned into its Schumann resonance (Zero - 45hz), our brains, nervous systems, even cells all working through electricity. Our heartbeat, blood pressure, body temperature is controlled by our powerful sub-conscious mind. Perhaps it should be named 'super-conscious'? At any rate, one can imagine trying to take over such routine but important processes with the ordinary everyday conscious mind. Dead in minutes, I would think.
Nevertheless, this powerful subconscious can be trained, as it always is with any new skills that require instant reflexes, (and more) such as driving a car or playing an instrument, as two examples. Combat, whether sporting or lethal, requires split-second reflexes that bypass the conscious mind in order to hit or defend oneself. That has to be trained usually, and any fighting 'art' comprises many examples of how the sub-conscious mind is trained by conscious repetition.
So it is with the visualization, enhancement and leading of Chi. Since Chi is bio-electricity, there will always be a degree of enhancement by sheer repetition of (say) a karate thrust, alone, without any imaging of Chi as such. An example of this (which I mentioned in my training logs) is the wave of power I felt from ten feet away when my wife performed a karate block, even years after she had given up formal karate training.
Marg had never visualized Chi in her training, but had concentrated on the physical techniques which from a formidable sensei (John Jarvis) numbered sometimes in the hundreds during a session.
One can imagine that in days of old, the prime requirement would have been hard physical training and the tempering of the hands as quickly as possible, in order to have at least a chance against some armed, and armoured soldier or bandit, not quiet, relaxed visuals of a life-force which even today is neither known or believed in by many Asians themselves.
I have referenced kindles and free books in my training log section, by Wong Kiew Kit, and Dr Yang Jwing-ming. These books explain far better than I can the rationale and mechanics of chi kung, both for health and combat. I dare say, spiritual as well, although 'spirit' in this context is rather the sense of 'Oneness' and 'place in the Universe', rather than an organized-religious concept.
There are many good books by others, such as Fred presented, and the benefits of chi kung, NOT as some replacement for conventional medicine, but rather as a complementary pre-emptive maintenance for health, is a valuable discipline for those who desire something other than, or to go with, straight-out physical training.
As a caution, the deliberate conscious leading of EM/Chi/life-force into some areas of the body can be dangerous. It's using the conscious mind for something that is usually the task of the sub-conscious, an 'interference' of sorts. A safe way that can be for life, is the enhancement in the Lower Dantian, a general area of the lower abdomen, noted in Fred's post above. It's simple and safe. One can perform forms such as Ping Shuai, Baduanjin, Yi Jin Jing and a host of other techniques (combat as well) while simply concentrating on the Lower Dantien
Later with more information, experience and in some cases a teacher who knows what he/she is doing, further chi kung techniques can be practiced.
Some chi kung only requires a blank (as much as possible) conscious mind, static stances (Zhan Zhuang as taught by Lam Kam Chuen) or Induced Chi Flow as described in the Wong Kiew Kit books (links to their kindles in my training logs).
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 7, 2020 23:43:42 GMT
I have spoken to baguazhang students who have used their art in a sudden violent encounter, more than one told me that the attack started and then they had no recollection of the fight at all, but they found their attacker lying unconscious. Then their training is correct and effective for a non-competitive genuine Internal Combat system. One of three classical "internal" systems, along with Tai Chi and Hsing Yi, Pakua Chang is a powerful rotary fighting system using the palm as the principal weapon rather than the fist. The circling exercise is designed to gain many results, including bodily strength, mind/no-mind (sub-conscious) ability to put away an attacker. Health, and spiritual enhancement. It is by far the toughest form of mind/body exercise I ever did, albeit for a short while. Even the one month that I threw myself into Pakua circle-walking, the effects were profound and I've posted in Sierra more than once on this. It was like the Red pill of Neo's Matrix, a sort of 'break-through', a personal demonstration of what was possible in the "old days" when students would walk the circle for an hour each day for a year as their preliminary training. Mine was 35 minutes a day for one month. In the chapter on Paul Kuo, a Taiwanese Pakua master, Robert Smith in his book 'Chinese Boxing : Masters and Methods' describes how Kuo disdained endless forms/katas and instead simply walked the circle performing the Single and Double Changes (of direction). He maintained that said forms were simply 'mind-clutter' and in the subsequent book Pakua, also by Robert Smith, asserted that in a real-life situation where one was being attacked, the training of circle-walking (with various near-static arm and upper body postures, while the lower body is actively engaged in walking and maintaining balance around the circle) would enable one to effectively and appropriately deal with the attacker without having any intimation of how one did it. This is exactly how the students described when Fred talked to them. They dealt effectively with the situation(s) with the minimum of conscious thought, their actions were automatically relegated to the sub-conscious as trained, and with appropriate force (they didn't kill their attackers). How different that is to today's competitive environment where so-called martials arts competitions feature watered-down combat techniques which while entertaining perhaps, have very little in common with real-life serious confrontations. As I said, I walked the circle for 35 minutes every day for a month, forty years ago. As relaxed as I possibly could be, the sweat still drenched my clothes very soon into the drill. The mind was concentrated on the form (which I practiced for a few weeks from a standing position, before I started circling, the idea was so the form would not take up all my concentration), the Center of the circle (where one's opponent is), someone behind me (so that a Change, a turn of direction, can be done and a palm thrust applied), and most importantly, the concentration and breathing into the Lower Dantien (which makes it a chi kung). This concentration into the Dantien (or Dantian) was somewhat compelled, because any wandering of the mind off this energetic centre resulted in losing my balance and stumbling outside the circle. The 'glancing up suddenly in a waiting room while reading a mag, at someone staring at you' was amplified considerably, to the point where (as I've said) walking up the road and without thinking (which is the idea of course) suddenly turning around to catch someone peeping around a curtain, 50 yards astern. They must have near required a visit to the loo. I have a feeling that the rotation itself itself enhances Chi power, similar to an electric generator. Although starting out slowly, the circling ideally becomes quite fast as the months and years go by, and the lines (wires/nerves) of electric current in the arms outstretched into the center of the circle (plus the body's energy circuits) rotating in the Earth's magnetic field must surely have an effect. The first of the Five Tibetans consists of outstretched arms and the body rotating on the spot, ideally for 21 reps. Persian wrestlers also use this drill in their Zoorkaneh sessions, however they are regarded as doing too many rotations. Too much of a good thing, so to speak. But still, many of their performers/trainers are notable by their senior years.
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Post by fredhutch on Mar 8, 2020 17:30:00 GMT
Macky, I have never done any practice of baguazhang, although I would like to, but one thing I have found is that just from other chi kung practice, I turn and spin very easily, much more than I used to before doing chi kung. Because of this I have long suspected that the originator of bagua probably had a very high level of chi development first, and then he intuitively saw the value in turns and spins. Paul Dong in his book "Empty Force" says that before taking up tai chi, you need to do standing meditation and achieve significant results first and only then do tai chi. I have read that some people doing standing spontaneously begin doing tai chi movements in perfect style. So like with bagua my own feeling is that the chi needs to be cultivated first, or at least in conjunction with the martial forms, which, I think, would result in more effective learning of the martial forms.
I've been doing the five tibetans for many years; I have experimented with many ways of doing them. I think it was in a book by Gavin Frost, sorry can't remember which one, that the practice of spinning is discussed at length, apparently this practice is found in many ancient cultures. The Sufi are well known for this, apparently the American Indians did it too, and the German-American "Turners" in the 19th century were called that just for this reason. And while the advocates of the five tibetans say to spin in only one direction, Frost says you can spin either way for various purposes, which sorry to say I can't remember off the top of my head! What Frost says is that the when you spin you are moving your body through the magnetic field of the earth much like an electromagnet, and this generates a current or force of some sort. The above-mentioned Paul Dong has a hand-circling exercise which he says does the same thing, as I remember he says that when you circle your hands you are moving your red blood cells through the earth's magnetic field and thus increasing their "charge" for lack of a better word. The guy who does Pranic Healing, sorry can't remember his name either, says to spin while holding your breath for nine spins and says this draws prana in through your crown chakra, he says this (and his other modifications of the tibetans) are more effective than the standard version. I saw an illustration of a Sufi spinning while holding the left palm up and the right palm down, which is interesting indeed because Baron Fersen uses this same hand position in his "star" standing energy gathering practice, energy is said to come in the left palm and excess energy goes out the right palm into the ground. Recently I've been doing the spins for 100 reps every day, this is advocated by Roger Haeske in some of his materials, too early to tell if it's better than the standard 21 or not. Whew! We're walking textbooks of the arcane!
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Post by mr potatohead on Mar 8, 2020 17:42:02 GMT
............ Whew! We're walking textbooks of the arcane! Ha! Don't know about that, but I do enjoy reading what you and macky write about it.
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Mar 8, 2020 19:48:51 GMT
Paul Dong in his book "Empty Force" says that before taking up tai chi, you need to do standing meditation and achieve significant results first and only then do tai chi. I have read that some people doing standing spontaneously begin doing tai chi movements in perfect style. So like with bagua my own feeling is that the chi needs to be cultivated first, or at least in conjunction with the martial forms, which, I think, would result in more effective learning of the martial forms. Fairly easy to read, but extensive article about standing meditation: scottjeffrey.com/zhan-zhuang/
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 9, 2020 4:52:37 GMT
Paul Dong in his book "Empty Force" says that before taking up tai chi, you need to do standing meditation and achieve significant results first and only then do tai chi. I have read that some people doing standing spontaneously begin doing tai chi movements in perfect style. So like with bagua my own feeling is that the chi needs to be cultivated first, or at least in conjunction with the martial forms, which, I think, would result in more effective learning of the martial forms. Fairly easy to read, but extensive article about standing meditation: scottjeffrey.com/zhan-zhuang/Yes I had seen that article. It's as good as a complete course really. Thanks for that Deuce. If anyone wants any more on Zhan Zhuang I've got a few books by Lam Kam Chuen, and his teacher, and Mark Cohen as well, just pop your email on a PM to me, and I'll send them through. Plus anything else I've got on chi kung and/or isometrics as well.
A great 10-part series. Easy to follow, and some of the preliminary exercises make up a nice version of Baduanjin (Eight Brocade) as outlined in his book Way Of Energy.
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 9, 2020 5:47:00 GMT
Fred, while I agree than chi development is beneficial before taking on (say) Tai Chi forms etc,, with the instructions in the second half of the Pakua book I waited for 18 months to be sent to me in 1980, the circling itself with the shown techniques will build the chi force up, without any doubts.
The first half of the book Smith shows some exercises with which one will gain some general ideas of circular movements, but the second half is what I was primarily interested in, not so much for combat (although I was happy to accept any benefits on that) but more my fascination with the circle and the methods. I even painted a 10-12ft diameter circle on the floor of my garage in my enthusiasm.
I was not interested (and still not) in learning set responses to direct punches, kicks etc in a mechanical fashion (although these can certainly be drilled into the sub-conscious, and usually are) but rather the Mind expansion possibilities from this dynamic meditation.
Although the postures of the arms and upper body seem relatively static as the circling proceeds, they are in fact the combat techniques of Pakua in a form which as you mentioned with the students that you spoke to, results in the job getting done without any recollection as how it happened.
Since Pakua has become more well-known in the Western world over he last 40-50 years, the number of techniques have ballooned and the system itself seems to be getting back to "external" methods of "martial art" combat protocol.
The circling method on here www.amazon.com/Pa-Kua-Chinese-Boxing-Fitness-Self-Defense/dp/1556434391#nav-top which is the book I learned from, is far more than that. It's dynamic meditation with the benefits of health, the building of chi, and useful combat techniques designed to protect oneself physically. Because of the Mind expanding into the form, it's open-ended, and the accounts of Pakua masters demonstrate feats that are not generally attainable by simply following "normal" protocol in today's commercially-driven world of dojos and gyms (not to mention the laughable tournaments).
The book previews are mostly positive, especially Bob Shackleton's, but others, although mainly complimentary, still miss the point that I've made above, seeking more explanations for the use of certain techniques, regarding the book as basic etc.
If you want a whole swag of techniques and their uses explained and followed in a mechanical manner, then this book is not really enough. But if you are a home trainer (or even in a small group of like-minded trainers ) who is interested in chi kung meditation with some useful other-benefits, then this book is actually complete.
It's the difference between relegating a whole internal system of combat in one great bundle into the sub-conscious, vs the itemized individual combat techniques of any other system into automatic responses one at a time. Does that make sense ?
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macky
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Post by macky on Mar 9, 2020 7:05:45 GMT
As an additional account re the Earth's magnetic field acting as permanent magnets on the circling nervous system as one rotates, like an electric generator, I tried an experiment on a shrub back in the early 80's at my previous house, that was all but dead. The branches when broken off looked almost done for, and that carried on for a couple years. There were no leaves on it, no flowers.
I had read in the early 60's in a popular science book of the day, of a radio telescope that pointed a whole array of tuned coils at the sky, and an accompanying diagram showed EM radiation being focused into said coils like a lens. In other words, more radiation than the diameter of the coils was gathered and focused.
I reasoned that we live and bathe in the Earth's magnetic field all the days of our lives, plants, animals, humans, so I snaffled some insulated line wire from my telephone/line depot and made up a tuned coil that I fastened to a six-foot length of stick, the insulation preventing the shorting out of the coil when the stick got wet in the rain. If I managed to focus more of what we normally live in, maybe the shrub might benefit.
In my area, the angle of dip in the Earth's magnetic field is about 22 degrees from horizontal, so I dowsed magnetic North, then placed the coil over the dormant shrub angled as such, hopefully for maximum effect.
My wife naturally thought I had lost a sandwich out of my picnic basket, but I assured her that things were still stable, and we waited and waited for results. Five weeks went by with nothing apparently happening, then one bright morning in the sixth week, I drew aside the curtains and there was the shrub covered with tiny leaves overnight.
The wife stood at the window for a very long time. Nothing was said. The very next morning there were little flowers forming on the shrub among the growing leaves. More silence from the feminine side of the family.
I informed my wife that the next phase of the experiment was about to begin and I took the coil away from the shrub. The next morning there was nothing left on the trunk and branches. The leaves and flowers lay on the ground around it. End of experiment.
I later read in one of Bruce Cathie's books (he's the Kiwi airline pilot that predicted the times when the French would detonate their nuclear bombs, using his harmonic maths that he had developed) that he had tried much the same type of experiment, using dozens of plants, some with coils, and some without, then after a time measuring their growth. The ones with coils were significantly bigger.
I'm sure that the rotating of the body with the arms outstretched as in (say) the first Tibetan has a significant effect on the overall health, as long as it's not overdone. Swinging arms as in Ping Shuai, the same. The arms swinging through the magnetic field back and forth from a relatively static body contributes to the generation of chi, enhanced further with Dantien meditation.
I also speculate that it is the uninsulated high-speed travelling in airliners through the Earth's magnetic field that has a lot to do with jet lag, in aluminium aircraft. Cars are made of mild steel so they act more as Faraday cages than an aircraft. I've driven for 11 hours straight in my car (apart from a couple of stops for a leak) and felt quite fresh on arrival.
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