denis
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Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 18:15:14 GMT
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TexasRanger
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A little here, a little there...
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 18:58:52 GMT
If you read the paper, the authors don't say that. What is their conclusion? They also state "the relationships that we document are consistent with findings from prior clinical trials that show similar beneficial effects in other populations" And this is not the case. And one of their sources? Philippine Coconut Authority Corporate Planning Office.Projected Philippine Domestic Consumption of Coconut Products, 2008-2017. Philippine Coconut Planning Workshop. Iloilo City: Philippine Coconut Authority; 2010 Yet the authors state no conflict of interest? Right...Dave Asprey's board was full of people who reported their LDL shot through the roof after they started on the Bulletproof Coffee and coconut oil. Dr Cliff Sheats in his first book (Lean Bodies) and John Parillo recommended MCT oil in the 1980s, I tried it. Personal experience, yes. But my LDL next physical was up quite a bit and my MD asked what I was doing differently. parrilloperformance.com/product/captri-mct-oil/www.bodybuilding.com/content/mct-oil-is-it-the-ultimate-way-to-burn-fat.htmlHave never seen any positive impact from coconut/MCT oil, only negative including spending money on yet another hyped processed food. |
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Michael
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He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
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Post by Michael on Nov 23, 2023 19:43:33 GMT
Texas can You put this in laymen's terms? LDL, HDL, Triglycerides? Which matters most? Michael my man! They all matter, to be honest. Add your fasting blood glucose levels and HbA1C to determine if a person is pre-diabetic or full blown Type 2, C-Reactive Protein, etc. Based on what you've shared regarding your diet, your fitness (and work), etc., I'd imagine your MD is thrilled when he or she looks at your lab results. But, I want to know: 1. My LDL. Small or large and fluffy, LDL still carries cholesterol and APOb. 2. Triglycerides. 3. A1c is good, but people with concerns should also ask for an Oral Glucose Tolerance test as well as it is a far better measure of insulin resistance. (You can do one at home pretty easily. Fast for 12 hours and use a $20 blood glucose testing kit and get your first reading and drink a couple of cans of coke or glasses of OJ. Then, another stick at one and again two hours. If your blood glucose levels drop quickly, you're good as that indicates you aren't pre-diabetic or T2D -- there are recommended numbers on the web.) The A1C shows you an average number, the OGTT is your actual status at that moment. IMHO -- and confirming I'm not an MD so I've done my legal disclaimer  -- the OGTT is a great tool after reading what this simple test can show. Quick story: a friend had gone to his MD, was told his A1c was 6.3 hence "pre-diabetic". Yours truly said dude, you're diabetic, not pre. He got a little PO'd with me**, said how would I know so I challenged him to do the OGTT through his MD or try the home version I described. He got the doctor's office to set up the OGTT and the test results came back showing he failed -- fasting was okay, but at one or two hours his blood glucose was over 200 and 180 and would be considered T2D whereas he passed his A1c: **I won a bet and got a free Starbuck's. Not that I was overjoyed based on my friend's health status, but he made some immediate dietary changes as his MD wanted to put him on metformin and he said nope, already on a statin. Time to get serious. Thanks Texas. This year was the first time I went for a physical since before the stupid pandemic. I almost lost my primary doctor because of it. He said my lab results were perfect but I like to be informed. My Mom's side of the Family has/had a lot of diabetics so that's a little scary. |
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Michael
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He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
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Posts: 5,291
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Post by Michael on Nov 23, 2023 19:47:47 GMT
Interesting stuff, Thanks.
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denis
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Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 20:19:25 GMT
Coconut oil : what do we really know about it so far? academic.oup.com/fqs/article/3/2/61/5475954?login=falseFrom the two types of CO available, virgin CO seems to carry the greatest potential, once it presents polyphenols and a higher amount of vitamin E compared with RBDCO. However, more re- search is needed, especially human trials, in order to verify how such components can affect the health, and to establish the necessary dosage for these effects to take place. |
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TexasRanger
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A little here, a little there...
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 20:51:12 GMT
Coconut oil : what do we really know about it so far? academic.oup.com/fqs/article/3/2/61/5475954?login=falseFrom the two types of CO available, virgin CO seems to carry the greatest potential, once it presents polyphenols and a higher amount of vitamin E compared with RBDCO. However, more re- search is needed, especially human trials, in order to verify how such components can affect the health, and to establish the necessary dosage for these effects to take place. Easy to answer: 1. CO is a processed food. 2. CO lacks the abundence of nutrients in the real food -- coconunt. 3. Research shows the majority of people who have used CO and MCT oil both have a higher LDL, which reflects a bad response by the body. 4. Most of the claims regarding CO and MCT are on sites selling the product so they've cherry picked a handful of good studies, papers like the one Denis cited use information from companies selling/supporting coconut oil. So, just eat real food. In this case, coconuts. Not too much. |
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 23, 2023 21:01:06 GMT
Then, quit eating that processed coconut oil, m8.
Get the UNprocessed (except for the expeller press) kind.
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denis
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Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 21:10:01 GMT
I’m with Mr P thus far. I’m not fussed!
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 23, 2023 21:30:17 GMT
Um, well, ok denis, m8, but don't paint a target on your back.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 22:13:18 GMT
Then, quit eating that processed coconut oil, m8. Get the UNprocessed (except for the expeller press) kind. Mikey, You really wrote that?  Really? Any extracted oil is a processed food -- expeller, whatever. Plain and simple: a processed, concentrated product. That oil isn't in nature's package and it won't be eaten as designed: with accompanying fiber, protein and a zillion other nutrients science is still uncovering. Sugar's procssed food. Flour's a processed food. Protein powder is a processed food. Coconut oil is one more. And,our ancestral diet/evolutionary diet never once included extracted oils. Again, during survival school we didn't extract oils from the seeds we were able to find...think good old Grok "extracted" oils? All this nonsense about coconut oil being a miracle food is coming out of marketing spin and sales (think Dave Asprey, John Parrillo) and bro keyboard commandos buying into the hype. |
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TexasRanger
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A little here, a little there...
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 22:14:05 GMT
I’m with Mr P thus far. I’m not fussed! Well, then like Mikey you're wrong as well. |
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 24, 2023 1:16:15 GMT
OK, thanks.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 24, 2023 17:22:33 GMT
Sorry, m8s, I put this in the wrong thread at first, but I've caught it before Bruv yelled at me, so good on me!
In the past, I was adamant against any cooking oils, other than lard.
**When I mention any food without quote marks, PLEASE understand that I'm talking about what our ancestors knew as food, REAL food, organic food, as found in nature food, not, for example, grocery "lard" - it's just a re-assigning name game with the Frankenfoodies, you know?.
I no longer eat any dairy, so butter is not something I consider on this topic.
The reason I used to completely avoid EVOO and coconut oil is that I understood that ANY cooking oil begin to oxidize and become carcinogenic when it is exposed to air. That's one of the reasons I like and use rendered lard.
More recently, I've seen both pro and con for coconut oil and EVOO from sources I respect, so I've relaxed on that. Although I do agree that the oxidizing happens and is accelerated by heating, I think there are levels of oxidation of certain oils, like EVOO and CO, that the body can handle and the biggest threat may be in the amount eaten ...... like a lot of things taken in excess .... plus the soil where it's found, the quality at the start, the processing that is minimally necessary or optimum (like fermenting vegetables) ..... and maybe other, similar considerations.
The thing for me with the CO is; Coconuts are food. Coconuts naturally contain oil that is quite edible. Pressing the oil out of coconuts properly (like, controled heat), without adding solvents - or anything else - results in having just the oil.
How could that not be edible when it is in coconuts that are edible?
I don't eat trees, but I eat their nuts/seeds and sap. Medicinal stuff, you know?
Heating oils increases the oxidation, but what about when I cook an avocado - the fruit which has a lot of fat? Is that a food I should avoid as carcinogenic when heated? I don't think so. Same with eggs, etc.
I expect the KIND of fat makes a difference too, but I'm not going to obsess over micro-managing my diet.
Eating (diet) REAL food has been made extremely complicated FOR us by those whom "we" rely on for our commerce.
Our ancestors provided their own food or shared within their community, so it was fresh, organic and REAL.
Unfortunately, what we see today is still using the same labels and applying them to substances that have no resemblance to real food regarding content.
It's up to us to sort it out if we want to eat as clean as possible. That's just a fact of life in the 21st, but it is NOT as God intended.
Choosing what to eat should be easy, simple, and it used to be. We need to get it back and rid ourselves of the jerks that seem to want us dead.
Perhaps a reasonable introspective question would be "What compromises am I willing to accept according to what I know and what my overlord will allow me time to discover and implement?".
A healthy body eliminates potentially tumor forming toxins every day. Everyone is exposed to some amount of toxic load every day.
Everyone must decide what level of exposure they are willing to accept and adjust according to what their body can handle and tolerate.
Things like "minimum - or maximum - effective/beneficial dose" and "all things in moderation" come to mind.
A little coconut oil or EVOO now and then may be acceptable, but I wouldn't pack it in.
OTOH, I've heard of people doing fine, surviving on very simple fare, like lard on bread. (Lard from their garden grazing hogs, of course)
It's your body, your choice. Choose what works for you. Choose wisely.
If you have vetted sources of empirical evidence on either EVOO or CO, I'm always interested in learning, but I'm not interested at all in sources that come from agents who sit on various boards of government agencies and corporations, either simultaneously and/or consecutively, jumping around from one to another during their career as it serves them or their bank account.
That's a conflict of interest and it happens a lot in "scientific" papers - it is by far that way for the majority of them.
It's difficult to find studies by people who are not obligated to some other entity, free of entanglements and constructed with methods designed to produce or select a specific desired answer ...... that is not science in any sense of the word. It's just word play and trickery motivated by greed, pride, self interest and possibly evil intent.
I like Michael Pollan's statement; "Eat REAL food, not too much, mostly plants", but it's up to each individual to discover how to interpret that and apply it for their own health benefit.
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moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Nov 24, 2023 17:48:41 GMT
Sorry, m8s, I put this in the wrong thread at first, but I've caught it before Bruv yelled at me, so good on me! In the past, I was adamant against any cooking oils, other than lard.**When I mention any food without quote marks, PLEASE understand that I'm talking about what our ancestors knew as food, REAL food, organic food, as found in nature food, not, for example, grocery "lard" - it's just a re-assigning name game with the Frankenfoodies, you know?..........................................I like Michael Pollan's statement; "Eat REAL food, not too much, mostly plants", but it's up to each individual to discover how to interpret that and apply it for their own health benefit.
Cooking oils can cause “advanced glycation end products” (AGEs) when using high-temperature cooking. AGEs are harmful compounds that form when protein or fat combine with sugar in the bloodstream or during cooking at high temperatures. Cooking methods such as sautéing, deep frying, pan frying, grilling, broiling, roasting, microwaving, and baking at high temperatures can lead to the formation of AGEs in foods[1][2]. Specifically, dietary AGEs (dAGEs) are formed when foods are cooked in dry heat at very high temperatures[3]. Cites: [1] www.healthline.com/nutrition/advanced-glycation-end-products[2] www.linkedin.com/pulse/advanced-glycation-end-products-food-ages-you-brandon-nd-rhc[3] www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5502035/ |
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denis
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Post by denis on Nov 24, 2023 23:29:49 GMT
Sorry, m8s, I put this in the wrong thread at first, but I've caught it before Bruv yelled at me, so good on me! In the past, I was adamant against any cooking oils, other than lard.**When I mention any food without quote marks, PLEASE understand that I'm talking about what our ancestors knew as food, REAL food, organic food, as found in nature food, not, for example, grocery "lard" - it's just a re-assigning name game with the Frankenfoodies, you know?..........................................I like Michael Pollan's statement; "Eat REAL food, not too much, mostly plants", but it's up to each individual to discover how to interpret that and apply it for their own health benefit.
Cooking oils can cause “advanced glycation end products” (AGEs) when using high-temperature cooking. AGEs are harmful compounds that form when protein or fat combine with sugar in the bloodstream or during cooking at high temperatures. Cooking methods such as sautéing, deep frying, pan frying, grilling, broiling, roasting, microwaving, and baking at high temperatures can lead to the formation of AGEs in foods[1][2]. Specifically, dietary AGEs (dAGEs) are formed when foods are cooked in dry heat at very high temperatures[3]. Cites: [1] www.healthline.com/nutrition/advanced-glycation-end-products[2] www.linkedin.com/pulse/advanced-glycation-end-products-food-ages-you-brandon-nd-rhc[3] www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5502035/ |
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-- the OGTT is a great tool after reading what this simple test can show. Quick story: a friend had gone to his MD, was told his A1c was 6.3 hence "pre-diabetic". Yours truly said dude, you're diabetic, not pre. He got a little PO'd with me**, said how would I know so I challenged him to do the OGTT through his MD or try the home version I described. He got the doctor's office to set up the OGTT and the test results came back showing he failed -- fasting was okay, but at one or two hours his blood glucose was over 200 and 180 and would be considered T2D whereas he passed his A1c:
Really?
