denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 11:59:00 GMT
lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12944-021-01501-0The effects of fat consumption on low-density lipoprotein particle size in healthy individuals: a narrative review It has been suggested that replacing saturated fatty acids with monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids decreases the risk for CVD. However, certain studies are not in agreement with this recommendation, as saturated fatty acid intake did not increase the risk for CVD, cardiovascular events, and/or mortality. Furthermore, consumption of saturated fat has been demonstrated to increase large, buoyant LDL particles, which may explain, in part, for the differing outcomes regarding fat consumption on CVD risk. www.healthcentral.com/condition/high-cholesterol/cholesterol-particle-size These claims re LDL have been disproven. Why? Several reasons: 1. So called large "flully" LDL still contains cholesteryl esters and apoB-100. That doesn't change if it is large or small. LDL is still carrying substances that can damage your arteries. 2. Papers have shown larger LDL can and will penetrate the lining of the arterial walls. I did a quick search (sorry, it is early) and can't find the papers. But, Simon Hill who is a PhD (?) quickly summarizes the facts re so-called LDL: Reading through the comments on the video “Nope. Impossible for it to be that simple. If it were that simple, we'd simply measure LDL and see a huge correlation with LDL and heart attacks. We know that is not the case. "Almost 75 percent of heart attack patients fell within recommended targets for LDL cholesterol, demonstrating that the current guidelines may not be low enough to cut heart attack risk in most who could benefit," said Dr. Gregg C. Fonarow, Eliot Corday Professor of Cardiovascular Medicine and Science at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA and the study's principal investigator." "The researchers, led by Dr Uffe Ravnskov at the University of Lund, Sweden, looked at 19 existing studies which considered the association between ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol levels and the overall risk of death in people aged over 60. They concluded that 92 percent of people with a high cholesterol level lived longer, and called for a re-evaluation of the guidelines for cardiovascular prevention, “in particular because the benefits from statin treatment have been exaggerated.” "In another recent observational study of older men and women with no history of cardiovascular disease, higher LDL cholesterol levels in those who were 75 or older were not associated with risk for subsequent coronary events (NEJM JW Gen Med Jan 15 2020 and J Am Geriatr Soc 2019; 67:2560). In the current study, higher LDL cholesterol levels in relatively healthy older women actually were associated with longer survival. Until we have compelling evidence that cholesterol-lowering drugs improve clinical outcomes in such patients, we should emphasize healthy lifestyle and resist pharmacologic intervention."
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 12:33:00 GMT
Reading through the comments on the video “Nope. Impossible for it to be that simple. If it were that simple, we'd simply measure LDL and see a huge correlation with LDL and heart attacks. We know that is not the case. (1) "Almost 75 percent of heart attack patients fell within recommended targets for LDL cholesterol, demonstrating that the current guidelines may not be low enough to cut heart attack risk in most who could benefit," said Dr. Gregg C. Fonarow, Eliot Corday Professor of Cardiovascular Medicine and Science at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA and the study's principal investigator." (2) "The researchers, led by Dr Uffe Ravnskov at the University of Lund, Sweden, looked at 19 existing studies which considered the association between ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol levels and the overall risk of death in people aged over 60. They concluded that 92 percent of people with a high cholesterol level lived longer, and called for a re-evaluation of the guidelines for cardiovascular prevention, “in particular because the benefits from statin treatment have been exaggerated.” (3) "In another recent observational study of older men and women with no history of cardiovascular disease, higher LDL cholesterol levels in those who were 75 or older were not associated with risk for subsequent coronary events (NEJM JW Gen Med Jan 15 2020 and J Am Geriatr Soc 2019; 67:2560). In the current study, higher LDL cholesterol levels in relatively healthy older women actually were associated with longer survival. Until we have compelling evidence that cholesterol-lowering drugs improve clinical outcomes in such patients, we should emphasize healthy lifestyle and resist pharmacologic intervention." (4) (1) Actually, it is. When I have time, I'll see if I Bookmarked the findings that validate what Simon Hill cites. And actually, cardiologists do that very thing daily: check LDL and determine if a person is at risk for CVD and recent research indicates (more work needed) there's a relation to cancer. And if high LDL wasn't an issue, why is familial hypercholesterolemia a potential danger to individuals who have the genetic disorder? (2) Dr. Gregg C. Fonarow - Not sure of the the point of this quote? Either way, there are vegan and non-vegan cardiologists who do get LDL low enough to have shown you're able to make an individual heart attack proof. (3) Uffe Ravnskov -- can't believe he still gets a nod -- was/is part of that whole cholesterol myth group. He's not a cardiologist, has actually done no large scale patient studies and his claims were criticized for a lack of understanding of the scientific literature and research (this was outside of Denmark). (4) This research was focused on the huge concern and nearly ubiqutious demand by pharma that everyone gets a statin. The key point was and is if the individual is healthy and has no history of CVD, there's no need for meds. This is no different than cardiovascular surgeons do preventive stents...millions of $$$ and the stent does nothing to fix the root cause of the patient's illness.
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 12:53:53 GMT
|
|
Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,291
|
Post by Michael on Nov 23, 2023 14:39:27 GMT
Texas can You put this in laymen's terms? LDL, HDL, Triglycerides? Which matters most?
|
|
Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,291
|
Post by Michael on Nov 23, 2023 14:40:35 GMT
I don't eat coconut oil because it goes through me like a rat up a pipe but I've used it on my skin after shower when I've been working on site as the cement dries my skin. I now use mct oil which comes from coconut oil. I even shave with it. It's not as easy to shave with as a commercial shaving foam but I don't like putting those chemicals on my face. How to. Wet your face with water. Pour a teaspoon or two of mct oil in your hand and then use both hands to rub it on your face and then shave. Any oil left on your face after shaving can be rubbed onto your arms or whatever. peanut butter works too Oh My Stomach
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 14:41:55 GMT
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 16:15:11 GMT
Texas can You put this in laymen's terms? LDL, HDL, Triglycerides? Which matters most? Michael my man! They all matter, to be honest. Add your fasting blood glucose levels and HbA1C to determine if a person is pre-diabetic or full blown Type 2, C-Reactive Protein, etc. Based on what you've shared regarding your diet, your fitness (and work), etc., I'd imagine your MD is thrilled when he or she looks at your lab results. But, I want to know: 1. My LDL. Small or large and fluffy, LDL still carries cholesterol and APOb. 2. Triglycerides. 3. A1c is good, but people with concerns should also ask for an Oral Glucose Tolerance test as well as it is a far better measure of insulin resistance. (You can do one at home pretty easily. Fast for 12 hours and use a $20 blood glucose testing kit and get your first reading and drink a couple of cans of coke or glasses of OJ. Then, another stick at one and again two hours. If your blood glucose levels drop quickly, you're good as that indicates you aren't pre-diabetic or T2D -- there are recommended numbers on the web.) The A1C shows you an average number, the OGTT is your actual status at that moment. IMHO -- and confirming I'm not an MD so I've done my legal disclaimer -- the OGTT is a great tool after reading what this simple test can show. Quick story: a friend had gone to his MD, was told his A1c was 6.3 hence "pre-diabetic". Yours truly said dude, you're diabetic, not pre. He got a little PO'd with me**, said how would I know so I challenged him to do the OGTT through his MD or try the home version I described. He got the doctor's office to set up the OGTT and the test results came back showing he failed -- fasting was okay, but at one or two hours his blood glucose was over 200 and 180 and would be considered T2D whereas he passed his A1c: **I won a bet and got a free Starbuck's. Not that I was overjoyed based on my friend's health status, but he made some immediate dietary changes as his MD wanted to put him on metformin and he said nope, already on a statin. Time to get serious.
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 16:38:16 GMT
Quite a bit of misinformation: 1. A heart attack is a well-choreographed sequence of events aimed to restore sulfate supplies by oxidizing taurine, which is stored in large amounts in the heart. Absolutely not. The majority of heart attacks occur when small, unstable and highly inflamed plaque breaks loose and causes the heart attack. The body actually seeks to CALCIFY inflammation to prevent a plaque from rupturing. A calcium score is indicative of this. MDs and researchers recommend a diets such as Esselstyn, Pritikin and others because they can reverse the factors that create the inflammation and plaque that leads up to a heart attack. 2. Statin drugs, by reducing the supply of cholesterol sulfate to the heart, will lead to heart failure down the road, a worse prognosis than cardiovascular disease. Bogus, bad and misleading. Researchers have shown cholesterol sulfate worsens the factors in the blood that leads up to plaque and heart attacks. And for many people, statins provide critical benefits as they are anti-inlammation BTW, prothrombotic is a very, very bad thing sports fans -- probably guessed that from the posts. I could keep going, but IMHO the Weston Price website is another that I wouldn't rely on for information.
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 16:41:42 GMT
High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4908872/
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 16:57:45 GMT
High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4908872/Two authors who immediately stick out? The usual suspects... Uffe Ravnskov Malcolm Kendrick Both discredited, questioned on claims (who knows what data they cherry picked to make these claims?) and as noted Uffe is not a cardiologist nor is Malcolm and I've asked several MD friends about his claims. They said he's simply repeating the same old Atkins/low carb claims. Also who is taking advice from Kendrick? He certainly doesn't look healthy...in fact, I'd send him to the Pritikin clinic (not a vegan group) as the guy's clearly obese, probably T2D
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 17:15:47 GMT
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 17:31:50 GMT
And the reference cites Uffe: ‘Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You!’ by Uffe Ravnskov, 2009, GB Publishing, Sweden. Okay, lets stop for a second and look at the longest lived populations, those known to have little/no T2D, CVD, etc. They all have common factors: - Low levels of LDL (naturally through their diets) - Low homocysteine levels - Low overall cholesterol - Low triglycerides There's not a single study where the reported population eats like Uffe, Malcolm or the Price foundation advocate. Our ancestral diet was predominantly plants and very very lean animals. I've shared in the past that I've gone through survival school...anyone who's been there knows you can't eat fatty foods. Wild game is lean. Bugs are lean. If you can find eggs in the wild, they're small and their yolks are nothing like what we get in the store. So, this whole spin from Price, Uffe, et al, is simply fiction. Statins to lower cholestrol in individuals is an unfortunate but proven tool for our modern society. People are sedentary. They eat processed foods. Until they get off their rears and starting eating whole foods, mostly plants and stay active, unfortunately, statins are going to be here for a while. And we're seeing with the explosion of T2D more and more metformin. BTW, low carb MDs are prescribing metformin...why? I thought low carb reverses T2D...guess what. It doesn't as long as you're wrecking the permiability and integrity of the cell walls with saturated fats. And reducing the health of beta cells in the pancreas with SFAs. Again, Uffe, Malcolm and on and on ignore/don't know the science nor our evolutionary history. We didn't evolve eating the stuff they advocate.
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 17:57:36 GMT
“Residents of certain islands in the South Pacific, like Trobriand and Kitava, where coconut and coconut oil is consumed in large amounts, have been studied and found to be virtually free from stroke and heart disease. More recently, similar studies in the countries of Philippines and Sri Lanka, where coconut consumption is also high, found that those populations had positive lipid profiles. Thailand is yet another example of a country with a high intake of coconut oil and a low rate of heart disease, as well as the lowest cancer rates of the 50 countries studied by the World Health Organization.
Most of the studies in the past involving coconut oil were using refined, partially hydrogenated coconut oil, which is full of trans-fats before it was known or understood that trans-fats were harmful. Recent studies have been conducted on virgin, cold-pressed coconut oil, which has not been chemically treated, and has been found to be different in terms of health risks and benefits“
|
|
denis
Caneguru
Posts: 1,833
|
Post by denis on Nov 23, 2023 18:04:31 GMT
Another site says they have very little oil
|
|
TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
|
Post by TexasRanger on Nov 23, 2023 18:08:45 GMT
“Residents of certain islands in the South Pacific, like Trobriand and Kitava, where coconut and coconut oil is consumed in large amounts, have been studied and found to be virtually free from stroke and heart disease. More recently, similar studies in the countries of Philippines and Sri Lanka, where coconut consumption is also high, found that those populations had positive lipid profiles. Thailand is yet another example of a country with a high intake of coconut oil and a low rate of heart disease, as well as the lowest cancer rates of the 50 countries studied by the World Health Organization. Most of the studies in the past involving coconut oil were using refined, partially hydrogenated coconut oil, which is full of trans-fats before it was known or understood that trans-fats were harmful. Recent studies have been conducted on virgin, cold-pressed coconut oil, which has not been chemically treated, and has been found to be different in terms of health risks and benefits“ Again, bad information. The highest consumption of coconut oil in the world is the Phillipines. Healthy people? Good lipid profile? No. I've seen that horrible misrepresentation regarding Kitava. They don't consume coconut oil They eat the whole food: Tubers, Fresh Fruit, Coconut and Fish are the main components of their diet.
|
|