Israelis: Do you see non Jews as equal to you?

[moxohol]

Oct 30, 2023 19:27:19 GMT BigBruvOfEnglandUK said:

Oct 30, 2023 11:14:06 GMT Magnus said:

Different branch of the same original tree…

Indeed.
If some Christians are so attached to Judaism then they should become Jews. The original Christians left Judaism because they didn't think it was good enough but you have this new breed of Christian that seems to be worshiping at the feet of Jews and spouting this "Chosen people" and "Promised Land" bullshit. It doesn't make sense to me.

Neither does holy communion which is cannabalistic if u take the divinity filters off.

[denis]

Oct 31, 2023 7:18:09 GMT moxohol said:

Oct 30, 2023 19:27:19 GMT BigBruvOfEnglandUK said:

Indeed.
If some Christians are so attached to Judaism then they should become Jews. The original Christians left Judaism because they didn't think it was good enough but you have this new breed of Christian that seems to be worshiping at the feet of Jews and spouting this "Chosen people" and "Promised Land" bullshit. It doesn't make sense to me.

Neither does holy communion which is cannabalistic if u take the divinity filters off.

‘So what we know about Ignatius, as he is "constructed," is that he was the first to insist on being called Christian - even though that term "Christian" was probably first used by Roman magistrates - and Ignatius was emphatic about Jesus being a real historical person, etc. Yet ironically - as the main source I start out with above - Ignatius "planned" out his martyrdom to assimilate the competing West Asian pagan mystery cults - as to align Christianity with the Imperial Cult!! And thus "Transubstantiation"

As that first article explains - ALLEN BRENT

that prefigures in Ignatius' liturgical scenes (Ephes. 5,2; Mag. 7
Indeed, Ignatius anticipates his experience in the arena as a kind of Eucharist [the last Supper communion] in which instead of the pagan crowds there will be the Roman
as participants in a cult on which he himself is sacrificed on an altar that
is ready. (Rom. 2,2) His words are "to be poured out as a libation to God," which may reflect in Eph. 5,1-2.10 But Ignatius is not simply commenting on Scripture in a social vacuum. The... has clear associations with the Imperial Cult and its offerings of thus et vinum, as a sacrificial term...


OK so that is the true creation of communion as a Church practice - and what it means - a kind of imperial Brown-No$ing offering of self-sacrifice....This is confirmed by Professor Elaine Pagels' article comparing John of Patmos to Ignatius. She argues that indeed Ignatius was promoting Paul and the Hellenization of Christianity - while John of Patmos was doing the opposite!! John of Patmos was insisting real Christians follow Jewish rituals and are not Gentiles, etc. Meanwhile it was in Egyptian practice to use wine and wheat for the "sacrifice" - and so D.M. Murdock was correct.’

[denis]

Ignatius of Antioch and the Imperial Cult
www.researchgate.net/publication/249596540_Ignatius_of_Antioch_and_the_Imperial_Cult

[mr potatohead]

Acts of the Apostles 11:19 & ... 26

Meanwhile, the believers who had been scattered during the persecution after Stephen’s death traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch of Syria. .......

.........  (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.)

It was a derogatory label,  first  used by the Gentiles in Antioch to mock and make fun of the follows Jesus because
the believers were doing the same things that Jesus did - heal the sick
(or so it appeared to observers, but it is God who does true miracles, not man*), raise the dead, cast out demons, cripples walk, blind see, people meet Jesus, etc.

*Jesus warned that the devil can also contrive imitations of God-miracles which means that miracles do not automatically indicate that it is God who has done something, but that everything must be validated by, and agree with, His Word.

[moxohol]

Oct 31, 2023 7:38:46 GMT denis said:

Oct 31, 2023 7:18:09 GMT moxohol said:

Neither does holy communion which is cannabalistic if u take the divinity filters off.

‘So what we know about Ignatius, as he is "constructed," is that he was the first to insist on being called Christian - even though that term "Christian" was probably first used by Roman magistrates - and Ignatius was emphatic about Jesus being a real historical person, etc. Yet ironically - as the main source I start out with above - Ignatius "planned" out his martyrdom to assimilate the competing West Asian pagan mystery cults - as to align Christianity with the Imperial Cult!! And thus "Transubstantiation"

As that first article explains - ALLEN BRENT

that prefigures in Ignatius' liturgical scenes (Ephes. 5,2; Mag. 7
Indeed, Ignatius anticipates his experience in the arena as a kind of Eucharist [the last Supper communion] in which instead of the pagan crowds there will be the Roman
as participants in a cult on which he himself is sacrificed on an altar that
is ready. (Rom. 2,2) His words are "to be poured out as a libation to God," which may reflect in Eph. 5,1-2.10 But Ignatius is not simply commenting on Scripture in a social vacuum. The... has clear associations with the Imperial Cult and its offerings of thus et vinum, as a sacrificial term...


OK so that is the true creation of communion as a Church practice - and what it means - a kind of imperial Brown-No$ing offering of self-sacrifice....This is confirmed by Professor Elaine Pagels' article comparing John of Patmos to Ignatius. She argues that indeed Ignatius was promoting Paul and the Hellenization of Christianity - while John of Patmos was doing the opposite!! John of Patmos was insisting real Christians follow Jewish rituals and are not Gentiles, etc. Meanwhile it was in Egyptian practice to use wine and wheat for the "sacrifice" - and so D.M. Murdock was correct.’

As I understand it:
The Eucharist was & is not a new concept when christianity came into being. Many other religions that came before it had this feature of communion too.

However NONE ever had this feature of the Roman Catholic Eucharist as converting bread & wine into the body & blood of a human & cajoling acolytes to EAT it. This is truly a unique feature assigned only to Catholicism & Episcopalians.

I won’t even get into the roman torture device as an icon of personal sacrifice or religion of peace. Personally, I’d have stopped at the halo, white dove or piece of fish icons & left it at that.

[denis]

Oct 31, 2023 8:25:21 GMT mr potatohead said:

Acts of the Apostles 11:19 & ... 26

Meanwhile, the believers who had been scattered during the persecution after Stephen’s death traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch of Syria. .......

.........  (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.)

It was a derogatory label,  first  used by the Gentiles in Antioch to mock and make fun of the follows Jesus because
the believers were doing the same things that Jesus did - heal the sick
(or so it appeared to observers, but it is God who does true miracles, not man*), raise the dead, cast out demons, cripples walk, blind see, people meet Jesus, etc.

*Jesus warned that the devil can also contrive imitations of God-miracles which means that miracles do not automatically indicate that it is God who has done something, but that everything must be validated by, and agree with, His Word.

‘21 “And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God , was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. ….“

So it is clear that the Bible has no monopoly on being more true than others, it’s all the same account of ancient memories of how it all began. That doesn't mean we shouldn't read the Bible, on the contrary, it is a very instructive read, as long as you keep the goggles of worship off, because worship does not allow you to read what is actually written. Worship as represented by a catechism transforms any written testimony into an allegory for what you have chosen or have been forced to believe‘
Michael Brenner
www.quora.com/Can-we-interpret-the-creation-in-the-Bible-differently-like-physically-so-that-physicists-will-have-a-liking-for-it

www.scribd.com/document/293424611/The-Social-History-of-Satan-Part-II-pdf

[mr potatohead]

1 Peter, 1:19 - 21,  Berean Standard Bible
(mikey note: the Bereans studied the Scriptures [the Old Testament because that's all they had] DAILY to "see if these things be so"; Acts 17:11.)

We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.

For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

As for private interpretations, imaginations or alternative narratives as being valid and acceptable to God .... I recognize the source of that influence .... 
Genesis 3:1 - 13,  New Living Translation (easy to read, but not the most "literally" accurate translation. Yet, gives a decent overview.)

The serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the LORD God had made. One day he asked the woman, “Did God really say you must not eat the fruit from any of the trees in the garden?”

“Of course we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,” the woman replied. “It’s only the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God said, ‘You must not eat it or even touch it; if you do, you will die.’” (note that God did NOT say not to touch it. He only said not to EAT it. Her first mistake was her private mis-interpretation of God's Word instead of just quoting Him.)

“You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman. (Serpent says the Word of God is unreliable, not good enough. Sound familiar?)
“God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.”

The woman was convinced.
She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.
At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man and his wife heard the LORD God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the LORD God among the trees.
Then the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”

“Who told you that you were naked?” the LORD God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?”

The man replied, “It was the woman you gave me who gave me the fruit, and I ate it.”

Then the LORD God asked the woman, “What have you done?”

“The serpent deceived me,” she replied. “That’s why I ate it.”

[Spud]

BTW, IMO, the attitude of the Bereans is exemplary of the correct approach to the Word of God.
As Mary said to the angel who told her that she would miraculously conceive, "Be it unto me according to Your Word", and it happened exactly as she was told.

[Fascinating]

I wonder if any one there thinks some non-Jews are superior to Jews.



I'll just sit back at wait for your takes on the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[denis]

Oct 31, 2023 13:22:13 GMT mr potatohead said:

1 Peter, 1:19 - 21,  Berean Standard Bible
(mikey note: the Bereans studied the Scriptures [the Old Testament because that's all they had] DAILY to "see if these things be so"; Acts 17:11.)

We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.

For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

As for private interpretations, imaginations or alternative narratives as being valid and acceptable to God .... I recognize the source of that influence .... 
Genesis 3:1 - 13,  New Living Translation (easy to read, but not the most "literally" accurate translation. Yet, gives a decent overview.)

The serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the LORD God had made. One day he asked the woman, “Did God really say you must not eat the fruit from any of the trees in the garden?”

“Of course we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,” the woman replied. “It’s only the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God said, ‘You must not eat it or even touch it; if you do, you will die.’” (note that God did NOT say not to touch it. He only said not to EAT it. Her first mistake was her private mis-interpretation of God's Word instead of just quoting Him.)

“You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman. (Serpent says the Word of God is unreliable, not good enough. Sound familiar?)
“God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.”

The woman was convinced.
She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.
At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man and his wife heard the LORD God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the LORD God among the trees.
Then the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”

“Who told you that you were naked?” the LORD God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?”

The man replied, “It was the woman you gave me who gave me the fruit, and I ate it.”

Then the LORD God asked the woman, “What have you done?”

“The serpent deceived me,” she replied. “That’s why I ate it.”

I might read this next. The origin of god.
www.amazon.com/Origin-God-Laurence-Gardner/dp/0956735703

In the book's introduction, Gardner says: 'Our quest is to discover from all available sources what evidence there is, if any, to support the long-standing and widespread notion of God's existence. Is there a creative, supernatural, intelligent entity in the universe, or is the concept just an abiding superstition?'

He examines all biblical and other historical data and concludes there is 'absolutely no proof, nor even circumstantial evidence' that God exists: 'God can only be said to exist as an optional concept based on individual choice,' he says. 'He is a subject of unsubstantiated belief, not of certainty.'

‘The answer to this query could lie in the work of the late Christian O'Brien, a Cambridge scholar and exploration geologist, who proposed in the 1980s that members of an advanced race - known in the records of Sumeria, the world's oldest known civilization, as the Anannage or 'Shining Ones' - re-started civilization in southern Lebanon around 9,000BC. The Anannage seem to have been the first beings ever to be regarded as 'gods' - and one of them in all probability was Yahweh.’

old.world-mysteries.com/gw_Geoff_Ward_3.htm

[Spud]

"The serpent deceived me", Laurence Gardner and Christian O'Brien replied. "That's why I ate it."

[BigBruvOfEnglandUK]

Fast forward through his ad in the middle, m8s

[mr potatohead]

Zechariah 12:1 - 10 (ESV)

The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
“Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves.
And all the nations of the earth will gather against it.
On that day, declares the LORD, I will strike every horse with panic, and its rider with madness. But for the sake of the house of Judah I will keep my eyes open, when I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.
Then the clans of Judah shall say to themselves, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem have strength through the LORD of hosts, their God.’

“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a blazing pot in the midst of wood, like a flaming torch among sheaves. And they shall devour to the right and to the left all the surrounding peoples, while Jerusalem shall again be inhabited in its place, in Jerusalem.

“And the LORD will give salvation to the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not surpass that of Judah.
On that day the LORD will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the angel of the LORD, going before them.
And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Looks like, to me, we're living this.

[Sara]

We are now aware of thee feelings and attitudes towards the Jewish peoples and Christians. What does Islam mean to you?

[Magnus]

Israel just F’cked up BIG TIME…