Combining Kin Shi-Hai Do with Weights

[Bruce Tackett]

Kin Shi-Hai Do

It all started with this:

Michael said:

Although I don't have heavy DBs...

Bruce Tackett said:

Michael, you could combine KSHD with the light dumbbells.

Michael said:

Yeah Bruce that's what I do...The dumbbells I have are 5,10,15,20lbs. Not much but with KSHD they work really well for shoulders and arms for me.

Bruce Tackett said:

Michael said:

Bruce,

What's the heaviest DB You use for KSHD?

Bruce Tackett said:

I don't use weights for KSHD. But, if I did, I think 20 reps of KSHD with a weight would be a good number of reps to do. I'd use a weight that would enable me to contract my muscles for the first 15-18 reps, or so, and then complete the final few reps with just the weight, because I'd no longer be able to contract my muscles while lifting the weight

This all got me thinking, so this morning I thought I'd give it a shot. I first did my prerequisite pushups, pullups, shoulder raises, and abs. And then following what I had stated above, I did the following exercises:

1. Triceps extensions with a 40 lb. curling bar on an incline bench.

2. Curls with a 40 lb. curling bar using an arm blaster.

3. One arm dumbbell triceps extensions with a 15 lb. dumbbell on an incline bench.

4. One arm dangling biceps curls with a 25 lb. dumbbell.

The big difference between combining KSHD with weights and simply lifting heavy weights is that the heavy weights do all the work for you, whereas the combination requires a lot of focus and forces you to move necessarily slowly on each rep. I can't tell if there is any great advantage to combining KSHD with light weights, but I believe I'll pursue it and see what the results will be. I'm thinking of giving this 4 weeks. Taking measurements won't do any good, as I continue losing weight, so I'll just do it and see what happens.

I've noticed, to some extent, the same physiological effect felt with doing pure KSHD. An hour after my workout, I hardly feel as though I did any arm work at all. Tonight, as is usually the case with KSHD, I'll start feeling it in my muscles, and then by tomorrow morning I'll feel pretty pumped. We once had a discussion on this phenomena, as everyone who has done KSHD has shared the same effect. It was determined that this had something to do with blood occlusion.

[Michael]

Bruce I know most people don't care about this but one thing I like about KSHD with light weights is muscle endurance. It's one the most important things for me on my jobs. My arms never get tired. Between these and Your cables I'm pleased with this part.


I know there have been people that have used weights like this. I know some people kid themselves when they're lifting heavy and heaving up the weight. Why not lighten up and concentrate on the muscle being worked? I think it's a good way to train. Let us know what You think about this.

[Bruce Tackett]

Well, a couple of advantages to doing this is that there's very little, if any, risk of injury, and it is a bit less taxing than flinging the heavy weights about.

From my extensive experience with KSHD, and I can truly say extensive, I came to the conclusion that KSHD is about 80% or more as effective in building muscle size as weights. So, combining it now with weights should be interesting. And using the weights enables me to go to failure. As I stated above, contract your muscles for as many reps as you can, and then just let it go, performing another few reps with just the weight.

[Bruce Tackett]

I'm beginning to feel the effects - a lot sooner than with just KSHD. So, there's one difference becoming evident. I believe that for my next workout I will do the shoulder raises KSHD/weights style. I will also finish the workout with my favorite KSHD exercise, performed without weights - stand with your arms outstretched to the sides, parallel to the floor. Biceps curl in and then triceps push out. This is a great overall KSHD exercise which also hits your shoulders.

For visualization, imagine that you're Steve Reeves in Goliath and the Barbarians, curling in horses tethered to your wrists, and then imagine yourself, again, as Steve Reeves, in Hercules Unchained, pushing apart spiked gates closing in on you.

I take it a step further and imagine myself to be wearing my bejeweled velvet crimson battle shorts.


1:35.........

[TexasRanger]

KSHD with weights is essentially what Vince Gironda and others have been advocating since the 50s.  

rippeder.com/content/vince-girondas-muscle-has-four-sides

Scroll down...he calls it intra-muscular contraction or voluntary tension.  

Unless you're doing powerlifting or Olympic weight training, heavy weights don't do the work unless you're simply using bad form in your training.  If I'm using 100lb DBs, granted only moderately heavy, the 12 reps that I perform are in controlled form, with rep speed of 10 - 12 seconds on the negatives, 4 or 5 on the positive.  I'm in control of the weights, they're not in control of me. 

[Bruce Tackett]

What I meant was that with heavy weights I don't voluntarily contract my muscles as I lift them.

[TexasRanger]

Nov 20, 2018 22:06:14 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

What I meant was that with heavy weights I don't voluntarily contract my muscles as I lift them.

Ok, this is science is new to me: how do you lift heavy weights without voluntarily contracting your muscles?   

[Bruce Tackett]

It just happens. The weights do it for you.

[TexasRanger]

Nov 20, 2018 22:21:45 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

It just happens. The weights do it for you.

So, it wasn't me picking up that heavy deadlift?  The weights were doing it themselves...?  All of the bracing to get ready for that lift and effort was unnecessary?

Is this Gordon on the other end of these packets?

[macky]

I think what is meant is that the concentration/visualization is on the weights, to get them up. The muscles doing the job sort of go along for the ride.

The concentration is more on the muscles with KSHD-type movements using light? weights.  Does that make any sense ?     

[Michael]

Intra muscular contraction or voluntary tension is a good description for KSHD. When you have heavy weight you don't have to force the contraction. With light weights or KSHD you have to contract the muscles more yourself. That would be my description from my use of both extensively. Intra muscular contraction with light weight has a different feel.

[Michael]

Nov 20, 2018 23:01:18 GMT macky said:

I think what is meant is that the concentration/visualization is on the weights, to get them up. The muscles doing the job sort of go along for the ride.

The concentration is more on the muscles with KSHD-type movements using light? weights.  Does that make any sense ?     

That is a good description, makes good sense.

[Dave Reslo]

Nov 20, 2018 21:39:26 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

I'm beginning to feel the effects - a lot sooner than with just KSHD. So, there's one difference becoming evident. I believe that for my next workout I will do the shoulder raises KSHD/weights style. I will also finish the workout with my favorite KSHD exercise, performed without weights - stand with your arms outstretched to the sides, parallel to the floor. Biceps curl in and then triceps push out. This is a great overall KSHD exercise which also hits your shoulders.

For visualization, imagine that you're Steve Reeves in Goliath and the Barbarians, curling in horses tethered to your wrists, and then imagine yourself, again, as Steve Reeves, in Hercules Unchained, pushing apart spiked gates closing in on you.

I take it a step further and imagine myself to be wearing my bejeweled velvet crimson battle shorts.


1:35.........

These are also solid choices for exercising with bands, though the first one requires an appropriate space and benefits from the door anchor attachment

[Bruce Tackett]

Nov 20, 2018 22:50:59 GMT TexasRanger said:

Nov 20, 2018 22:21:45 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

It just happens. The weights do it for you.

So, it wasn't me picking up that heavy deadlift?  The weights were doing it themselves...?  All of the bracing to get ready for that lift and effort was unnecessary?

Is this Gordon on the other end of these packets?

You would question someone who wears imaginary bejeweled velvet crimson battle shorts?

[TexasRanger]

Nov 20, 2018 23:01:18 GMT macky said:

I think what is meant is that the concentration/visualization is on the weights, to get them up. The muscles doing the job sort of go along for the ride.

The concentration is more on the muscles with KSHD-type movements using light? weights.  Does that make any sense ?     

Heh...I got what he meant ( ) but I'd have to disagree and as you've lifted heavy, you probably get my point.  For example when Pavel talks about bracing or tension in PYTP and Naked Warrior, I got exactly what he meant as I did just that before picking or lifting or squatting a heavier weight.  If you don't stay focused on being 100% "braced" or tense from start to finish, your chances of being successful in that lift are significantly reduced.    

Pavel:

When you are doing any strength exercise, do this: (1) Crush the handle to pulp; (2) brace your abs as if you are about to get punched; (3) cramp your glutes as if you are about to get kicked. You will instantly get noticeably stronger. gearpatrol.com/2015/05/18/pavel-tsatsouline-interview/