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Nov 17, 2018 1:59:54 GMT
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Post by stormshadow on Nov 17, 2018 1:59:54 GMT
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 17, 2018 3:04:59 GMT
8 years ago, after my heart surgery, the cardiologist was discussing my getting back into shape with me. He said aerobics are over rated, lift weights.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 17, 2018 16:25:42 GMT
Ok cowgirls and cowboys, hate to get dust in your trail stew but anyone see the faults in some of this? 1. Lifting weights and running are involved in getting the heart "fit" or "conditioned" moreso than "health". 2. Weight training does not increase blood volume nor develop additional arteries (to support the aerobic work) like aerobic training (running, cycling, brisk walking). 3. Aerobic training increases the amount of nitric oxide -- which helps act like teflon for the arteries -- and generates healthier endothelial cell due to the aerobic adaption. 4. Weight training thickens the heart wall (it is a muscle, after all) and aorta, which can result in less flexibility. Aerobic training creates a larger heart -- the heart adapts to pump the increased blood volume. Heart "health" is probably close to 100% dependent on your diet. No way around it. Around 400 years ago, the English physician Thomas Sydenham observed, "A man is as old as his arteries." Still true today. If your arteries are messed up, you're messed up. Period. Running won't fix that nor will weights. (Just ask the late Jim Fixx...he ate like crap and his arteries were a mess despite his running. Weight lifters, strength trainers have heart attacks as well. Fitness and conditioning does not fix that.) And of course this little gem: online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/hb2.htm
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Post by countryboy on Nov 17, 2018 17:07:38 GMT
I had a friend who was a world class power lifter. There were times when little beads of blood would appear on his forehead during training with heavy squats.
Bottom line, he died in his mid 50's from a massive heart attack, just after coming back from a competition.
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Michael
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Nov 17, 2018 17:18:01 GMT
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Post by Michael on Nov 17, 2018 17:18:01 GMT
I have thought about this subject in the past being that I get tested on a day to day basis. I understand and know heart health has to do with diet. Now this is an honest question about your number one point Texas. Actually I'm kind of confused about this, 1) Lifting weights and running are involved in getting the heart "fit" or "conditioned" more so than "health".
If they're involved in getting the heart fit or conditioned is that not important for health in conjunction with a good diet? I'm not debating you because I don't know the science. I ask this because of an example of myself. Now say my diet is perfect but I do no exercise at all. Now I go out and swing a 16lb sledgehammer. Would this not put me at a higher risk of a heart attack because my heart is not conditioned?
I apologize but could you help me understand this.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 17, 2018 17:44:34 GMT
I have thought about this subject in the past being that I get tested on a day to day basis. I understand and know heart health has to do with diet. Now this is an honest question about your number one point Texas. Actually I'm kind of confused about this, 1) Lifting weights and running are involved in getting the heart "fit" or "conditioned" more so than "health". If they're involved in getting the heart fit or conditioned is that not important for health in conjunction with a good diet? I'm not debating you because I don't know the science. I ask this because of an example of myself. Now say my diet is perfect but I do no exercise at all. Now I go out and swing a 16lb sledgehammer. Would this not put me at a higher risk of a heart attack because my heart is not conditioned? I apologize but could you help me understand this. This is my layman's perspective/understanding, only, but a "fit" heart is going to be more resilient that a non-conditioned heart muscle, to your point, but remember there's more than just the heart involved. Your body's entire musculature is also going to get stronger or in better condition to support your work. That is, the muscles that help with circulation will get in better condition. As part of the body's circulation process, the blood gets pumped by the heart and to skeletal muscles (to a smaller extent) through your arteries and the skeletal muscles are involved in the return of the blood via the veins. So, a whole lot is involved in terms of overall conditioning. At the same time, there are all kinds of stories about individuals going out and shoveling heavy snow and suffering heart attacks. The blame used to go on the heavy exertion in "untrained" weekend warriors from the shoveling. This has since been revised, per my understanding: these heart attacks occured because the arterial health of the individuals was bad. Now, there is scientific documentation that shows without any doubt: marathoners, ultra-endurance athletes, etc., do incur damage to their heart muscle -- all kinds of inflammatory markers show up. And this takes place even in highly trained athletes. Again, just me, but, I don't know of anyone who has died of not lifting weights or not running (or doing dynamic isometrics -- LOLOLOL).
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 17, 2018 18:08:59 GMT
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 17, 2018 18:16:53 GMT
I had a friend who was a world class power lifter. There were times when little beads of blood would appear on his forehead during training with heavy squats. Bottom line, he died in his mid 50's from a massive heart attack, just after coming back from a competition. There's those evil weights again. This has been discussed many a time. Weights, themselves, do nothing but just sit there. It's the misuse of weights that is dangerous. A sensible weight lifting program is very healthy.
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Michael
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Nov 17, 2018 19:01:59 GMT
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Post by Michael on Nov 17, 2018 19:01:59 GMT
Thanks Texas. But since I like exercise, I think I'll take my chance with exercise and diet. Feel much better that way.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 17, 2018 20:47:12 GMT
Thanks Texas. But since I like exercise, I think I'll take my chance with exercise and diet. Feel much better that way. ! You're definitely not taking any chances...the human body is made for movement, as we all know. A sedentary individual is not doing himself/herself any favors. Sensible weight training, sensible aerobics.
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I knew it
Nov 17, 2018 20:58:20 GMT
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Post by dynoman on Nov 17, 2018 20:58:20 GMT
So my question is what is the best exercise for heart health? You hear all theses different kinds of theories, different opinions on one hand you hearing walking,on another running, now weights,just wondering if there is that one key exercise for good heart health?
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 17, 2018 21:21:21 GMT
So my question is what is the best exercise for heart health? You hear all theses different kinds of theories, different opinions on one hand you hearing walking,on another running, now weights,just wondering if there is that one key exercise for good heart health? Just my $.02...it all works as long as you're not doing it to any extreme. 1. Running? Cardiologists say running is fine, just not too hard, not to excess. This may be of interest and a number of other cardiologists agree 100% with Dr. O'Keefe's recommendations: There's a book called Walk! Don't Die! (https://www.amazon.com/Walk-Dont-Run-Doctors-Walking/dp/0934232008) where the MD who wrote the book notes even in back in the 30s or 40s (?), doctors and scientists knew that excessive running was bad for your heart -- everything science is showing now via the damage created by marathons, ultras, endurance cycling, etc. 2. Walking. I don't think you can go wrong. Hiking, brisk walks. Probably the only risk is orthopedic if you do too much. 3. Weights. Again, just opinion but I'm betting moderation again is the key. Our primal ancestors no doubt never did anything that approaches what we see with the crazy squats, benches, deadlifts -- how could they? And the human frame is simply not designed to sustained to do a lot of things barbells, etc., allow us to impose on our bodies. Of course, our ancestors didn't evolve doing hundreds and hundreds of Atlas III pushups with a 65lb weight vest...talk about being busted up after suicidal stupidity like that. Again, my opinion only.
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Post by countryboy on Nov 17, 2018 21:43:00 GMT
I had a friend who was a world class power lifter. There were times when little beads of blood would appear on his forehead during training with heavy squats. Bottom line, he died in his mid 50's from a massive heart attack, just after coming back from a competition. There's those evil weights again. This has been discussed many a time. Weights, themselves, do nothing but just sit there. It's the misuse of weights that is dangerous. A sensible weight lifting program is very healthy. Bruce The point I was trying to make was exactly what you said..."It's the misuse of weights that is dangerous".
It seems to me that there is a great deal of risk involved with anyone who is bent on reaching the top in the area of weight training, including bodybuilding. There was a time when strong men won contests because of their strength and skill. Now we have an assortment of chemicals designed to induce unnatural gains along with special wraps and lifting attire designed to help someone lift more than they are capable of, not to mention the fact that there are people who consider winning as the only option.
Kind of like giving a race car to someone off the street who loves speed.
I look at weights as being part of a strength and fitness program just like bands, bodyweight exercises, and physical work, but in my younger years the weights were everything.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 17, 2018 22:04:11 GMT
Gotcha.
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Post by josepz on Nov 18, 2018 9:06:34 GMT
I had a friend who was a world class power lifter. There were times when little beads of blood would appear on his forehead during training with heavy squats. Bottom line, he died in his mid 50's from a massive heart attack, just after coming back from a competition. But that's not because of the weights, but because he overdid it and went too far. Excess is always dangerous. If you fucking bleed while training and don't change course then you deserve whatever nasty consequences you get. Just apply common sense.
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