Michael
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Post by Michael on Jan 3, 2021 16:21:18 GMT
Weights need not bust you up, but they do bust up a lot of fellas that can't let past glories go and keep trying to relive them. Good form, upping the reps or lessening the weight a bit and being sensible will keep you out of trouble. Letting go of some lifts can be good to. Got Doug Brignole's Physics of Resistance Exercise. One of the best books I have on strength training hands down. Can You give a brief review of Doug's book?
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Jan 3, 2021 16:32:47 GMT
The problem is that many guys let their egos determine how much they lift and what lifts they do Add to that the fact that these guys refuse to acknowledge that they are getting older and that they have to make changes Common sense and not showing off by trying to prove that you can still keep up with the younger guys goes a long way Add to that, the "PR" chase, be it Lifting, Isos, Cals etc....what does it prove ? When I worked in the gym there was a guy in his early 40s who would come in to work out with his teenage son, he was a mess, wraps on his elbows and knees He admitted to injuries incurred from lifting when he was younger, yet still wanted to impress everyone with how much he could lift The guy didn't look fit or healthy, but his ego was alive and well Whenever he got done working out, he always looked like he was suffering Instead of growing up, he was still the young stud showing off....and paying for it Exactly! I can see someone wanting to put effort into it or working a little hard but beating Your body to crap is actually useless. If I was honest with myself, I've done stupid stuff in the past.
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Post by billfish on Jan 3, 2021 16:47:36 GMT
The problem is that many guys let their egos determine how much they lift and what lifts they do Add to that the fact that these guys refuse to acknowledge that they are getting older and that they have to make changes Common sense and not showing off by trying to prove that you can still keep up with the younger guys goes a long way Add to that, the "PR" chase, be it Lifting, Isos, Cals etc....what does it prove ? When I worked in the gym there was a guy in his early 40s who would come in to work out with his teenage son, he was a mess, wraps on his elbows and knees He admitted to injuries incurred from lifting when he was younger, yet still wanted to impress everyone with how much he could lift The guy didn't look fit or healthy, but his ego was alive and well Whenever he got done working out, he always looked like he was suffering Instead of growing up, he was still the young stud showing off....and paying for it Exactly! I can see someone wanting to put effort into it or working a little hard but beating Your body to crap is actually useless. If I was honest with myself, I've done stupid stuff in the past. We all have Michael Some of us have come to our senses though and learned from our mistakes Some will continue trying to impress others....like the guy I mentioned He could barely walk but was quick to brag about his younger lifting days
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Post by chanduthemagician on Jan 3, 2021 19:27:22 GMT
Weights need not bust you up, but they do bust up a lot of fellas that can't let past glories go and keep trying to relive them. Good form, upping the reps or lessening the weight a bit and being sensible will keep you out of trouble. Letting go of some lifts can be good to. Got Doug Brignole's Physics of Resistance Exercise. One of the best books I have on strength training hands down. Can You give a brief review of Doug's book? It's covers the physics, that sounds facetious, but it's not. He explains levers and leverage, loads etc. He couples that with the anatomy of the muscles paying attention to their origin and insertion and then he shows you the best ways to load those muscles. It tends to favor isolation movements in some cases like shoulders, and thus pisses some off because he talks about how some sacred cows, overhead press, squats and other movements due to their inefficiency of actually working the muscles, allow/require us to pile on a lot more weight due to the leverages of the lift thereby making it harder on the joints to get the same resistance on the muscle that you could achieve more safely with other movements. The book is a tome. Chapter 1 The levers of the human body Chapter 2 Active levers and neutral levers Chapter 3 Mechanical Disadvantage Chapter 4 Resistance curve Chapter 5 The apex and the base Chapter 6 Primary and secondary resistance sources and other forrcs Chapter 7 Alignment Chapter 8 Opposite position loading Chapter 9 Dynamic vs static muscle contraction and range of motion And on and on There are 26 chapters over 400 pages Its not a book on programming, it's a book on how to work your body effectively and in a way that is likely to target muscles efficiently and not cause injuries. That Doug has lifted at a high level for 43 years without a lot of the injuries that befall many strength training and bodybuilding's ranks tells me that not only does what he's saying make some sense, he's rather proven it out. Bill Pearl wrote a nice forward to the book. As I said some will simply dismiss this book, go back to popping advil, downing an energy drink and wrapping their knees and load a couple more 45's on each side of the bar and mutter something about sissy isolation work and get on with building "real" muscle and strength. To see if some of his ideas appeal to you ( I would argue the older you are they more they should ) you can read some of his published articles. These cover some of what is in the book in lesser detail. These articles are kind of a Cliff's notes version. I found the lat article very informative and the overhead press article drove home what I finally learned after beating the hell out of my shoulders for far too long. www.ironmanmagazine.com/the-best-lat-exercise/www.ironmanmagazine.com/the-case-against-overhead-presses/And more dougbrignole.com/past-articles/
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Jan 3, 2021 19:37:27 GMT
I have the book on the way, but I learned about the basic principles of what Doug wrote by just watching his YouTube channel on this subject. If you know basic exercise and anatomy, you'll pick up the basic concepts quick. Then it's just a matter if it suits you or not. www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_8DNqrT_rJ2NbNHUNrTxAUseful if you pick up on things quicker watching videos rather than reading.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Jan 3, 2021 20:52:30 GMT
Appreciate the write-up and articles Chandu, Thanks. Deuce Thanks for the videos. I'm familiar with Doug and always found what he does interesting. I don't dismiss anything. I remember Deuce mentioned him a good while back and I happened to watch a couple of his videos. I think I remember in one video he mentioned sissy squats were his go-to exercise? They hurt my knees. Does he consider people with existing injuries or certain exercises still may hurt some? Has either of You been using his concepts for a while? If so can You share Your own experiences? Thanks.
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Post by chanduthemagician on Jan 3, 2021 21:23:24 GMT
From my own standpoint, I figured out within the last few years that my shoulders only grow from more direct stimulation than overhead press and that overhead press likely helped create or at least aggravate some of the stuff going on with my shoulders. That lat article I linked to was super helpful and further reading his book I see how inefficient the bottom end of the pull-up is for lats. The line of pull isn't aligned with the muscle until you come up a ways from the bottom. You end up with a lot more strain on the joints than if you started the movement from above a dead hang. Doug likes this squat movement he calls the cable squat www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1033250300060005 doug doing it someone else doing it
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Jan 3, 2021 22:10:35 GMT
I’m fortunate to not have had any injuries in 2020. My mind doesn’t let me do what it judges my body isn’t capable of doing and, for this, I’m grateful.
Consequently, I have lots of failures of the fitness goals I map out for myself while sitting on my ass with pen and paper in hand.
I understand that elite athletes can short-circuit this safety “mechanism” - fortunately, I’m not one but just a “ham and egg” older turd chasing age-adjusted upper-percentile cardiovascular conditioning and strength endurance.
Even when I trained with the Olympic lifts and a semester of Stronglifts 5x5, I was spared injuries.
Did tear my ACL in karate 20 plus years ago and needed reconstructive surgery. Lesson learned: when tangling with a bigger guy equally or greater skilled, better to go down on your time rather than serious injury time.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Jan 3, 2021 23:36:59 GMT
From my own standpoint, I figured out within the last few years that my shoulders only grow from more direct stimulation than overhead press and that overhead press likely helped create or at least aggravate some of the stuff going on with my shoulders. That lat article I linked to was super helpful and further reading his book I see how inefficient the bottom end of the pull-up is for lats. The line of pull isn't aligned with the muscle until you come up a ways from the bottom. You end up with a lot more strain on the joints than if you started the movement from above a dead hang. Doug likes this squat movement he calls the cable squat www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1033250300060005 doug doing it someone else doing it Appreciate Your input, Thanks. Yeah, that was the squat, it wasn't the sissy squat. I've actually let go of the barbell squat probably 15 years I'm guessing. They always bothered my lower back. All I do now is KB Goblet, KB rack squats, or Reverse Lunges. But that squat looks very do able. I've had the same experience as You with Overhead presses. Again I have not done a barbell press in a good 15 years or more. So all my pressing has been with DBs and KBs. No matter how heavy or hard I push presses my shoulders never grew.
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Jan 4, 2021 0:18:51 GMT
Must confess that if I had access to barbells and a squat rack, I’d probably do OHP and squats. My experience with those lifts plus bench press and Pendlay rows was positive.
I also did heavy barbell good mornings from the rack. That lift added to my barbell squat total. I didn’t and don’t consider myself barbell strong but I had a nice experience lifting heavy in my mid 50’s and lifted more than I ever imagined.
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Post by mr potatohead on Jan 4, 2021 0:24:49 GMT
I never use a bar. Only DB's, stones and the like. I don't use 'heavy' weight, whatever that means, but I do find the tension I want and hold/pause or move the load around in that area. I think I've mentioned before that my typical per-hand load range is from 8# up to 30#. I don't do PR's - neither Personal Best nor Progressive Resistance. I'm not really trying to do more than before during recreational exercise. I just want it to feel good. So, some days I do more and some days less. Depends on how I feel, how I want to feel and what else I have to do.. When I do something like arm circles, I use 2# DIY's or my beautiful 3# pink DB's.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Jan 5, 2021 0:55:36 GMT
Must confess that if I had access to barbells and a squat rack, I’d probably do OHP and squats. My experience with those lifts plus bench press and Pendlay rows was positive. I also did heavy barbell good mornings from the rack. That lift added to my barbell squat total. I didn’t and don’t consider myself barbell strong but I had a nice experience lifting heavy in my mid 50’s and lifted more than I ever imagined. Yeah but You have to remember something, You haven't had the injuries I've had or done physical work like I have for many years. , it would feel a little different. But I'm glad You had good experience with those lifts. How many years did You do those lifts? If I knew how to put pictures from my phone I would show You my home gym. I've had a power rack that has a pull up bar and dip station for many years. My oldest son brought his Olympic weights/ weight tree to my gym a couple of weeks ago. I already had a bar a couple of plates. I never had the urge to touch the barbell with my little bit of plates. But since I was working Saturday I decided after 15 years or so to mess with the barbell squat and bench press. After using the barbell I know what I've figured out years ago, I like DBs and KBs better. They feel more natural to me.
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Michael
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He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
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Posts: 5,295
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Post by Michael on Jan 5, 2021 0:58:41 GMT
From my own standpoint, I figured out within the last few years that my shoulders only grow from more direct stimulation than overhead press and that overhead press likely helped create or at least aggravate some of the stuff going on with my shoulders. That lat article I linked to was super helpful and further reading his book I see how inefficient the bottom end of the pull-up is for lats. The line of pull isn't aligned with the muscle until you come up a ways from the bottom. You end up with a lot more strain on the joints than if you started the movement from above a dead hang. Doug likes this squat movement he calls the cable squat www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1033250300060005 doug doing it someone else doing it Here is an article I found I think Doug wrote: www.labrada.com/blog/workouts/the-importance-of-training-efficiency/
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Jan 5, 2021 2:26:19 GMT
Must confess that if I had access to barbells and a squat rack, I’d probably do OHP and squats. My experience with those lifts plus bench press and Pendlay rows was positive. I also did heavy barbell good mornings from the rack. That lift added to my barbell squat total. I didn’t and don’t consider myself barbell strong but I had a nice experience lifting heavy in my mid 50’s and lifted more than I ever imagined. Yeah but You have to remember something, You haven't had the injuries I've had or done physical work like I have for many years. , it would feel a little different. But I'm glad You had good experience with those lifts. How many years did You do those lifts? If I knew how to put pictures from my phone I would show You my home gym. I've had a power rack that has a pull up bar and dip station for many years. My oldest son brought his Olympic weights/ weight tree to my gym a couple of weeks ago. I already had a bar a couple of plates. I never had the urge to touch the barbell with my little bit of plates. But since I was working Saturday I decided after 15 years or so to mess with the barbell squat and bench press. After using the barbell I know what I've figured out years ago, I like DBs and KBs better. They feel more natural to me. Agree and understand Michael, I was only speaking for myself. I know of many of your injuries because you’ve shared them with me. I’m sorry you had to experience them. The stuff you do with your training is amazing considering. Sending respect.
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Post by vegetus25 on Jan 5, 2021 4:46:04 GMT
Michael, My shoulders never really grew either, until lately. I have been doing long-hold ISOs and DVR side laterals. Finally getting some noticeable growth in my shoulders. Might be worth a shot. I like some of Doug's stuff. He makes sense in a lot of what he says.
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