macky
Caneguru
Upside down
CLUELESS TOSSER
Posts: 2,828
|
Post by macky on Nov 4, 2019 3:13:35 GMT
This is extraordinary. It's the first time I've seen two people talking in private in the public section of the forum...…….
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 4, 2019 4:14:25 GMT
You'd have to be a Noo Yawkuh to understand.
|
|
pierinifitness
Caneguru
I do burpees, then I drink slurpees
Posts: 2,722
|
Post by pierinifitness on Nov 4, 2019 4:45:27 GMT
This is extraordinary. It's the first time I've seen two people talking in private in the public section of the forum...……. Sunday cutting-edge fitness chatter.
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 4, 2019 15:19:29 GMT
ok. Monday morning. I once again went back and reread all that macky had to say about Quiquong. I performed two different exercises, 40 reps in two directions each, doing my best to simply go through the motions, slowly and focused, and to make an effort not to ramp up the resistance. The first exercise was the push/pull which macky recommended, and the second was no. 11 in my O.P. Upon completion of these two exercises, my shoulders ache, but that's from having held my arms up for each of the exercises.
Now there's one thing I know. There is nothing mystical about KSHD. Just as with weightlifting, the effect of KSHD is physical. Being able to visualize whilst doing KSHD exercises can enhance the experience, but in the final analysis it doesn't matter if you were able to imagine yourself into a Roman toga pushing apart the Pillars of Hercules, or whether your mind wandered and you wondered what to have for desert tonight. As long as you maintained a strong contraction whilst performing the exercises the results are the same.
Another thing about KSHD is that after a workout, your muscles are all pumped, but then you soon lose it. Your muscles don't feel as though you've done any exercise at all. But then as evening approaches, your muscles begin to feel pumped, and this feeling increases on into the next day. We've discussed this on this forum and have concluded it has something to do with blood occlusion. Macky said that the morning after a Quiquong workout, he felt as though he had been hit by a truck. So, friends & neighbors, I'll see how I feel this evening and tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by mr potatohead on Nov 4, 2019 18:08:33 GMT
..... Now there's one thing I know. There is nothing mystical about KSHD. Just as with weightlifting, the effect of KSHD is physical. Being able to visualize whilst doing KSHD exercises can enhance the experience, but in the final analysis it doesn't matter ..... I could tell by your previous posts in this thread that you were expecting that visualization wouldn't help and, of course, it won't when you approach it that way. Just don't try to claim that you're attempting visualization with an open mind because it's obvious that you're not. Check out Epigenetics. Your thoughts control your gene expressions. If you believe visualization will help, it will. If you don't, it won't. It's just that simple.
|
|
|
Post by mr potatohead on Nov 4, 2019 18:15:28 GMT
..... Macky said that the morning after a Quiquong workout, he felt as though he had been hit by a truck. ...... Macky also said that he's doing Qigong which includes visualization. If you're not doing that, you're not doing what he does, so it is unreasonable to expect to have his results. I'm interested to see what happens in your unique application of the physical stuff though and look forward to your report.
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 4, 2019 18:45:40 GMT
I am incapable of visualization. I just don't swing that way. When I first started trying out KSHD, I was doing my best to visualize, but it just wasn't happening, and after two weeks of effort, I was ready to call it quits. And then, as I was doing what possibly could have been my last workout, my mind wandered elsewhere, and when I came back to what I was doing, I noticed that I had developed one hell of a pump. At that moment everything clicked. From then on, rather than trying to visualize, I just focused on the movements, themselves, and concentrated on the pump, and ended up practicing KSHD exclusively for a straight year and a half. Well, I also included isos.
Early on, I had a phone conversation with Greg Mangan, the founder of VRT, and he told me that some people can visualize and some people can't. In my particular circumstance he said that I was doing what worked best for me.
So, in this morning's pingpong workout, I did the one thing I can do - just focus on and feel the movements. At the end of the day what holds true for KSHD probably holds true for Quiquong. The process is ultimately just physical.
|
|
Bob50
Caneguru
Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
Posts: 894
|
Post by Bob50 on Nov 4, 2019 19:47:54 GMT
For me, visualization is possible if I use relaxation or moderate muscle tension during movements. High muscle tension impedes visualization because of attention switching to muscle/tension.
P.S. Just a little explanation. In my case, visualization is seeing my body parts and movements with closed eyes. It is something like meditation. I do not visualize objects which I should push or pull.
|
|
bob44
Caneguru
Posts: 204
|
Post by bob44 on Nov 4, 2019 19:51:21 GMT
VRT can cause problems if not done correctly. Years ago I started using VRT and would visualize pushing the sun away with open palms and then I would follow with closed fist of pulling the sun back towards me. My pull has always been stronger than my push and as a result I started to hear everyone talking about global warming. Coincidence?? I think not!
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 4, 2019 20:13:06 GMT
Oh, my side.
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 4, 2019 20:18:18 GMT
For me, visualization is possible if I use relaxation or moderate muscle tension during movements. High muscle tension impedes visualization because of attention switching to muscle/tension. P.S. Just a little explanation. In my case, visualization is seeing my body parts and movements with closed eyes. It is something like meditation. I do not visualize objects which I should push or pull. I interpret visualization as actually visualizing objects - Mack trucks, Sherman tanks, Olympic weights, gym machines, whatever. Greg Mangan told me he is so adept at it he could even get into smells and sensations. I think of what I do as "going with the flow". Getting into a somewhat meditative state. Just feeling the movements through.
|
|
Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
|
Post by Michael on Nov 5, 2019 0:13:41 GMT
I don't want to sound weird or kooky but can't You visualize a movement, muscle or an object? I've done all three. Macky's post on this stuff is always interesting and I get what he's saying. I also get what Bruce is saying about his mind wandering. When I exercised when I was younger this would happen to me, especially when I listened to music. I'm curious, what do You guys feel would be the difference in what You visualized when doing certain exercises? Bruce, I hope Your having less pain.
|
|
|
Post by mr potatohead on Nov 5, 2019 4:01:58 GMT
I am incapable of visualization. ....... Ya, right ...... ask him to draw a picture of his house. He'll immediately see it in his head. Of course he can and does visualize. He's just trying to be cute.
|
|
|
Post by Alan OldStudent on Nov 5, 2019 8:21:19 GMT
Thanks Macky ! So what am I? Chopped liver? No Brucie. You're mascerated pubes!
|
|
macky
Caneguru
Upside down
CLUELESS TOSSER
Posts: 2,828
|
Post by macky on Nov 5, 2019 9:55:01 GMT
ok. Monday morning. I once again went back and reread all that macky had to say about Quiquong. I performed two different exercises, 40 reps in two directions each, doing my best to simply go through the motions, slowly and focused, and to make an effort not to ramp up the resistance. The first exercise was the push/pull which macky recommended, and the second was no. 11 in my O.P. Upon completion of these two exercises, my shoulders ache, but that's from having held my arms up for each of the exercises. Now there's one thing I know. There is nothing mystical about KSHD. Just as with weightlifting, the effect of KSHD is physical. Being able to visualize whilst doing KSHD exercises can enhance the experience, but in the final analysis it doesn't matter if you were able to imagine yourself into a Roman toga pushing apart the Pillars of Hercules, or whether your mind wandered and you wondered what to have for desert tonight. As long as you maintained a strong contraction whilst performing the exercises the results are the same. Another thing about KSHD is that after a workout, your muscles are all pumped, but then you soon lose it. Your muscles don't feel as though you've done any exercise at all. But then as evening approaches, your muscles begin to feel pumped, and this feeling increases on into the next day. We've discussed this on this forum and have concluded it has something to do with blood occlusion. Macky said that the morning after a Quiquong workout, he felt as though he had been hit by a truck. So, friends & neighbors, I'll see how I feel this evening and tomorrow. You keep on talking about KSHD which is not chi kung. Chi kung is Energy Work. Life force/chi/prana. There's nothing mystical about that either, it's plain bio-electricity, something the ancients didn't know about specifically, but were able to trace its courses and centres throughout the body, times of the day when it was most noticeable, organ emotions etc. Some of that has found it way into common language like the negative energy of the liver is anger (positive is kindness) which you hear people say someone is in a "shitty liver", he's "venting his spleen" etc. It's easy to see the connections with this stuff after a while. Look at the negative energy of the lungs, grief and depression. Someone weeping will be breathing in more than they are breathing out. Anger will be in reverse, quick inbreaths and long invective-laden outbreaths. TCM has chi as it's working protocols. All illness is blocked chi in some area of the body. Chi kung is the conscious exercising of chi as a focus.
With KSHD you're tensing the muscles as though you are lifting weights. Visualization can be complex, or simply "going with the flow" as you say. Certainly a KSHD curl can be enhanced by visualizing an Olympic barbell in your mitts. It makes it much harder to curl.
Chi Kung is much different. You can start off visualizing familiar objects, which I presented an example of (the Mack truck), to get you used to NOT tensing the muscles any more than necessary to perform the movement while pushing and pulling a truck. The first movement of pushing your palms away from the body is indeed called Pushing The Mountain and is an important visual for beginning chi kung practitioners.
But eventually the visualization is of the energy itself, moving from the lower belly where it is stored (abdominal breathing, not forced) under the body and up the back to the shoulder blades and then through the arms and in and out of the hands. THAT's chi kung.
Many there are who have performed what they fondly regard as chi kung, for years, but all they've been doing is mild calisthenics, maybe with some benefit, but never building up the power that advanced chi kung exponents can muster.
The trouble is, the whole thing is plagued by bullshit youtubes "hard chi kung" and outright misinformation by people who are either frauds or do not understand what chi kung really is.
Even many Chinese have no idea, but over the past few decades, chi kung has been scientifically studied and there are hospitals in China that give their patients various s chi kung drills to help them recover. Up until then, there were many Chinese who practiced Tai Chi and after achieving no viable energy, took up other styles, believing it was the style itself that was at fault. Nobody told them about chi and how to gather it into the lower belly area.
A static drill one can do is simply to sit, stand, or lay down and breath QUIETLY and calmly into the lower belly area, visualizing a ball of light (colour of your choice but usually white or gold) building up. That can be done anytime, and if you try that on say three times a day for 20 breaths at a time, you will begin to feel a heat inside the belly after a while (everybody's different) and a "centered robust feeling" that is calming at the same time, the excess energy lowered out of the head and chest, the thinking more ordered and less stressed.
That is precisely the drill that kept my sanity over 17 years of looking after my wife, who was progressively getting more ill until her death in 2008. It was 24/7 for most of the last seven or so years and getting up at least twice a night out of deep sleeps. That "centering" kept me focused all that time. I only fainted once (momentarily, I recovered quickly) towards the last months of her life, all the other time I was up and running to tend to her and clean up after her.
If you collect the energy there, then start leading it around according to your drills involving the legs and arms, in a physically relaxed state, you will certainly begin to feel the energy after a time, depending on how focused you are, without grinding your mental images, and you will realize that it's not a case of whether you believe it or not, you know it to be true now. That is why many chi kung masters/tutors say that you need to try it for yourself.
It's been proven in scientific experiments with bacteria, meters, and even light physical objects being moved without touching. It's not bullshit, I've seen and done some of it myself. After I had done a few years of it in late 80's, I could get my wife to stand steady but unbraced with her back to me and I would detect the edge of her energy field (aura or whatever you want to call it) then I would gently push and tug at it, without her knowing what I was doing, eventually either pulling her back towards me or forcing her to take a step forward to stop falling over.
The most difficult thing that is so hard to accept is that you will grow stronger in a unified way, both physically and mentally, your focus on everyday tasks will improve, and you'll feel soothed and relaxed at the same time. Building muscle is not the goal of chi kung, but you may build up a little. Give it three months and see if it works for you, or not. Always relax, smile into yourself, have fun.
|
|