Dave Reslo
Caneguru
Not quite severely obese
Posts: 1,465
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Post by Dave Reslo on Jan 9, 2019 14:43:07 GMT
For years Mike Bruce would talk about his beginners neck routine, which was 100 reps (for three sets I think?) with a light weight doing front neck curls, side neck curls, and neck harness lifts. He made a point of saying again and again that these were the only directions you would ever need to train the neck and anyone who said otherwise was wrong. Then, the neck flex came along and he changed his attitude entirely; you now needed something like 15 reps per set from as many different angles as possible. He spoke as if he was new to the idea to resistance cables for neck work, although this wasn't actually true, and it seemed to me that he was just giving whatever advice he thought would benefit him the most financially. He's also been pretty opaque about how involved in the neck flex he is, with comments varying from "I was asked to try out this product" to "Mike the Machine is the basis for the neck flex". I can't see how the neck flex wouldn't work and I don't think anybody has matched his neck feats from when he was younger but the whole thing left me kind of sour.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Jan 9, 2019 16:47:27 GMT
Having a huge neck isn't of primary importance to me. Doing strenuous exercises for your neck, to me, sounds pretty dangerous. As far as I'm concerned, some isos performed daily will eventually get you a pretty decent neck.
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
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Post by Michael on Jan 9, 2019 17:26:47 GMT
Yeah, I agree. I don't care how big my neck is. I've been training my neck with self resistance and isometrics for a long time. I don't use much tension and only train my neck 2-3 times a week. I mostly do it for endurance and it feels really good.
I would give anyone a warning on doing bridging on your neck. You're taking a big chance. Especially if You're trying to hold it longer and longer. If You're doing it and feeling little stuff that's a sign. You can do what You want but that's just my opinion.
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Post by mr potatohead on Jan 9, 2019 17:49:55 GMT
Nose to mat bridging, and especially the flipping over and back, is a stunt like dead lifting with a straight bar barbell or overhead KB ballistics. It's a spinal injury waiting to happen. Avoid it. It's unnecessary and dangerous.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 18:48:19 GMT
I haven't done the kick overs in quite a while and only did them once in a sparring session. I don't plan on doing them any time soon and never do a full workout of them anymore. I never planned on having a big neck and only do the exercises for health and to help protect my neck. When it comes to bridges, I only do for three minutes max and don't go further than that. Longest ever was a 7 min back bridge and that was over 10 years ago.
I always understood about the warnings and never did neck work going in half cocked. When it comes down to health I do a standing neck routine with no resistance and utilize deep breathing at a more focused point. In some cases it's far better than bridging in the long run IMO.
I've seen the video of Jeff and he does bring up some interesting points but I just never felt right with it and I do what works for me.
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macky
Caneguru
Upside down
CLUELESS TOSSER
Posts: 2,828
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Post by macky on Jan 9, 2019 18:53:46 GMT
For the home trainer who's not into wrestling or boxing, careful isometrics and KSHD are quite sufficient.
Don't go all out on the isometrics. Not interested in measurements.
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Jan 9, 2019 21:12:10 GMT
Scott Sonnon, over a decade ago, warned of the potential orthopedic issues -- both near/long term -- associated with most bridging moves. This was back with Furey's bridging was popular and then a self-proclaimed fitness guru was proclaiming 5 or more minutes of "nose to the mat" bridges. (He also cured his shoulder issues with bridging!!! Think that was after (?) the high desert bee pollen bullroar.) Add books like The Science of Yoga also warn of the potential neck injuries that can be created by bridging.
Safer ways, smarter ways if that is your goal. My neck, unfortunately, hit +18" via plain old weight lifting and never did a single bridge.
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Michael
Caneguru
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
Winner of Twatformetrics Spartan Challenge
Posts: 5,288
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Post by Michael on Jan 9, 2019 23:43:46 GMT
I'm just letting You know this because I ask my chiropractor about different exercises years ago. And the bridge was one of them. He pretty much said the same thing Jeff said. Eventually, most people who do it will feel a crunching in their neck. Some may get lucky for a good while but I wouldn't try my luck like that. I know some people promote that exercise but it doesn't make it safe. I read this somewhere but don't remember where: " You can tell a man's health by their neck".
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Silverlooks
Caneguru
Training with Overcoming Isometrics exclusively since Jan 2017 - Using Sierra Hook + Iso-Strap
Posts: 220
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Post by Silverlooks on Jan 10, 2019 0:03:47 GMT
Drew Baye adjusted the TSC protocol from 30-30-30 to 45-30-15 for neck exercises for safety.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 0:33:07 GMT
I'm just letting You know this because I ask my chiropractor about different exercises years ago. And the bridge was one of them. He pretty much said the same thing Jeff said. Eventually, most people who do it will feel a crunching in their neck. Some may get lucky for a good while but I wouldn't try my luck like that. I know some people promote that exercise but it doesn't make it safe. I read this somewhere but don't remember where: " You can tell a man's health by their neck". I like this quote from George Jowett....“In both man and the other male beasts, the neck has always been the true indication of the quality and quantity of his concentrated nerve power. A strong healthy man always has a powerful neck, and he always will have one.” Now whether one takes this at face value or not is up to them and you can argue on the statement but it is a belief that when you understand how to apply certain things and make them work, it should be noted that when it does work, why debate it. Bridging isn't for everybody, that's a given and some shouldn't do it at all but a lot of the debate on bridging is more on fear than on scientific principles. Having a strong neck is important for a lot of reasons but bridging doesn't always have to be the answer, there are ways to develop it safely without the need to bridge. It works well for people who have managed it intelligently but with all other exercises, it is important to use your brain and learn the aspects of how it could benefit you and if it doesn't work, stop doing it. That's my take on it at least .
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Jan 10, 2019 2:38:53 GMT
The problem is, Jowett was neither a scientist, doctor nor did he have an education in biomechanics, so, claims like "concentrated nerve power" are simply that. The fact is, the spinal column and the structure around which it is built is both very sophisticated and at the same time vulnerable to trauma. eg The spinal column has small "fingers"are damaged through repetitive compression. But, the objective concerns -- not "fear" -- are simply that. Just like the claim/myth that bridging "stretches the back" -- complete BS...it compresses the lower back -- the same thing happens in the neck. Trainers like Pavel and NFL strength coaches turn to recognized experts like Dr. Stuart McGill who has shown the micro-trauma created in the spine by repeated bridging. So while issues created by bridging may not manifest itself in five, ten or 20 years, there is serious potential -- risk -- for long term damage. When kids have asked me about getting a "strong neck" and bridging, I offer alternative suggestions and recommend they also look for people who know their stuff when it comes to spinal health and spinal integrity, but, bridging? Don't do it.
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MBS
Caneguru
Lean, lithe and feral
Posts: 1,297
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Post by MBS on Jan 10, 2019 2:42:26 GMT
Just the thought of doing bridges, especially nose to mat, makes me cringe.
Better ways to build strength and not risk injury.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 3:03:40 GMT
guess I can't win with anyone. Stick to what works is best in my book. No matter what, I know what gives me the best benefit and I stick with it. Good for you guys for what works for you. Not debating, just giving a heads up of what worked. It's cool to have concerns, but don't try to take away what makes me happy and has kept me doing what I love without severe injury. Thank you for your concerns and cringes.
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Post by dynoman on Jan 10, 2019 3:11:39 GMT
Just bought myself a new head strap with the chain can be at 2 different areas, it’s great, for yrs at the gym in my hometown they had a Nautulis 4 way neck machine which was great, I miss that, decided to start throwing in some neck work.
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Jan 10, 2019 5:27:14 GMT
guess I can't win with anyone. Stick to what works is best in my book. No matter what, I know what gives me the best benefit and I stick with it. Good for you guys for what works for you. Not debating, just giving a heads up of what worked. It's cool to have concerns, but don't try to take away what makes me happy and has kept me doing what I love without severe injury. Thank you for your concerns and cringes. What works best now isn't necessarily the right thing for long term. And you also have to ask yourself "best benefit" for what? Paying the bills? Doing household chores? Working around the house? "just giving a heads up of what worked." I think most of the people on Bruce's site have a wealth of experience under their belts via various training approaches -- think (and I may be wrong) some people wrestled back in the day. I didn't but tried bridging back when Furey's book hit the scene in 1999 or 2000 until Scott Sonnon's well researched information hit the web. The good thing about this site is there are people here you can learn from...they've been there, done that. eg The recommendations for reverse benches and reverse push ups on handles or DBs (to save the wrists) since they're more conducive to the shoulder -- great idea!!! Learned something new from that. "It's cool to have concerns, but don't try to take away what makes me happy" We shared objective information. No one here is trying to "take away what makes [you] happy". Don't blame us for that...it is your choice but you seem to want blame other people. T'ain't any of us taking away anything...
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