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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 25, 2018 7:03:09 GMT
Thanks guys. That's a lot of information to start with. One more question. How do you guys incorporate iso's in with say calisthenics and self resistance. My current routine is as follows: Morning Morning rotations then 5 sets of different Pushup variations (about 2-3 reps from failure) 6 days a week. Lunch time 2 sets if 12 different power flexes at 10 reps per exercise during lunch. 6 days a week Evening Day 1: chest, triceps, shoulders(3 sets of self resistance per muscle. Very intense effort) Day 2: back, bicepts, legs( either 6 sets of pull-up variations or a combination of pullups and self resistance forback, 3 sets of self resistance for bicepts then 6 sets of squat/ lunge/pistol squat for legs) Day3: evening off maybe shoot some ball with my son, talk a walk with the wife something light Day 4: same as day 1 Day 5: same as day 2 Day 6 same as day 3 Sundays or day 7 is a active rest day. Imay do a few light calisthenics or yoga but very low intensity. If I add up the time I train on a given dayit is between 45-55 minutes. Any ideas how I could add in iso's. I really don't know ow how much is too much in regards to isometrics, and I don't want to over tax my central nervous system. I know I have a tone of questions guys. I did the utube search and much of it seems to contradict each other. That is a lot of stuff I don't do, so I don't know what to tell you about shoehorning in some isos, except perhaps, as follows below: Although I agree that 45 to 55 minutes is a huge chunk of time for one session, if what you're doing is working for you, I wouldn't be too concerned with isos. If it is working for you now, yet you want to add some kind of isometric without increasing total time, I might add a loaded carry feature to the walks with your wife. I'd try to pick equal weights for both hands that will allow me to finish the walk feeling good, so, depending on elapsed time, light to moderate weight. A loaded carry has an isometric effect on the arms and somewhat on the shoulders, depending on how much arm swinging happens. According to Dan John, loaded carries are the number one exercise everyone should be doing to gain strength (squat is number two). Anytime you do a loaded carry, it is an isometric for all muscles engaged to do the holding of the weight, whether it's DBs, a trap bar, a keg or a sand bag.
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Post by FitVet1 on Oct 25, 2018 14:31:10 GMT
Thanks guys lots of good stuff there. Just to clarify, the push-ups in the morning are not to failure but 2-3 reps from there, possible even further. I always perform different variations including push backs, pikes or handstands. My morning routine this morning took 13 minutes and this is typical My lunch ch tume routine takes about 15 minutes And my evening routine takes between 15-20 So total training time is under 60 minutes. I break it up so I can focus on greater intensity. Someone said train hard or train long but not both, I agree.
What am I trying to accomplish? I want to maintain my muscle mass, maybe grow a little but not much. Current stats.5'10 183 about 17% bf. I would be upset if I lost some body fat either. I really just enjoy training in shorter sessions. I feel it gives me better results and takes less time from the family. I do see you guys point about the volume of training however. i like the idea of an isolated hold on the last set of self resistance sets. That's makes sense. And maybe I'll safe the power flexes for my Day 3 and 6 when I have less volume.
I am still open to ideas and recommendations.
Thank you all for the input thus far.
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Post by stormshadow on Oct 27, 2018 18:54:48 GMT
Welcome FitVet. Great info for you. Challenge yourself, do something daily, include strectching, experiment with different techniques, follow solid eating plan. Many different ones. I prefer balanced, non processed Mediterranean type but many can work. I think meditation stretching yoga Pilates Chi Kung Tai Chi can all be used for help recovering from injuries. Michael mentioned motorcycles. I was really into motorcycles (street and trail). I was a combination of experienced and very lucky. No longer ride. Too many crazies out there. Several of my friends severely hurt. Isometrics are great for recovering from traumatic joint or skeletal injuries. When I say recover I mean meaningful improvement. Unfortunately some injuries stay with you for life. I think positive mental attitude goes very long way. You might enjoy this www.artofmanliness.com/articles/isometrics-at-the-office/www.google.com/amp/s/www.onnit.com/academy/4-rules-to-recovering-from-your-exercise-injury/amp/
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Post by FitVet1 on Oct 27, 2018 20:48:31 GMT
Stormshadow, thanks for the links I really enjoyed them both, especially the old army field manual material.
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Post by HHEnthusiast2 on Oct 27, 2018 21:53:59 GMT
Hi FitVet 1
You may also like to view The Isotonometric video posted on the forum under: Isotonometrics by Dr. Len Schwartz
Sorry bI have no luck trying to attach things on this forum!!
Just put: Isotonometrics by Dr. Len Schwartz in the search box upper right corner and scroll down to the video!!
It is a way to incorporate a "form" of "isometrics you may or may not find useful/enjoyable, even if you just use it periodically during the day!
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Oct 27, 2018 22:12:07 GMT
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Post by macky on Oct 28, 2018 5:03:43 GMT
As someone who does isometrics almost exclusively, isometrics can have as many variations and targets as BW or weight training.
I believe that isometrics incorporated into a "total" training routine involving movement exercise is the best, depending on what you want. If like me you can't do some exercises because of joint problems, then isometrics will help a lot, and you can get a good all round workout with say the Black Monks routine (with some cautions) with isometrics alone.
Otherwise what has already been said here on this thread is quality advice. I would mention breathing at as normal a pace as possible while holding isometric tension. Never hold the breath despite the odd course recommending it. It's simply dangerous and not to be followed. Whacking great deep breaths and forcing it out while stoking in max tension on isometric holds is nearly as bad.
Another aspect of isometrics, you do NOT have to go to max tension (a perceived 100%) in order to get a decent workout in. The old Bullworker course in fact recommended just that, pushing as far in as you could, then easing off a bit and holding for ten? seconds. In saying that, the 30-30-30 Drew Baye-Hutchins-Steve Maxwell-Silverlooks is a challenging workout and can feel like you've been doing weight training the next day (but not sore).
2-minute sub-max holds can be refreshing on days that you don't want to stoke it in, but still do something for the day. "Pulses" of 4 or 8 second on/off effort/rest can be interesting as well.
Since you are already heavily into training, you should decide what you want out of isometrics at the start, what you are using them for, whether they are worth doing in conjunction of your other exercise protocols etc.
If you find that you simply like isometrics for what they are, there will be no problem, but the longer holds will still tire you. You won't however have the same level of soreness (if at all) the next day.
My opinion is that isometrics should be done separately from your movement exercises, e.g. at the opposite ends of the day, or alternate days. Again, my opinion, but doing an isometric hold at say the end of a set of curls mixes up the mind-body connection and confuses the exercise routine. For example, what kind of iso-hold could you do when you're at the end of your tether of a set of curls ? If you gone to near-failure, could you put much effort into an iso-hold at all ? Then, would you stop curling early in order to get a "decent" iso-hold (percentage effort) in ? If you had done a iso-hold at the start, then commenced movement curling, how many curls would you be happy with ?
Possibly if you shot a set of BB curls away, then had a rest, then did an iso-hold in the curl position, that might be okay. I still think it's better to separate the two protocols altogether though.
You could chuck an isometric in during the day at odd moments if you did it with a ramped hold (30-30-30 or the 20-20-10-10 of Doug McGuff). You can start cold with those.
The whole thing is open to considerable experimentation. Keep you going for years, in fact.
BTW, although I have not deliberately muscle-built, the shirts feel a lot tighter around the shoulders and upper back over the last few months, and the weight has remained pretty much the same. I'm currently progressing from the 20-20-10-10 hold times to the 30-30-30 as I can, using some Monks, a rigged up "iso bow", a block of wood, and a wooden dowel.
My current isometric routine : Drawer-top or Steering wheel Push, Bar Pullback seated, Door frame or Wood block push-in (two positions), Monk 10 (two positions) (high and low) Monk 10 pullout on top of head Monk 15, Drew Baye Squat "Pullover" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Curl/Push-downs Wrist Pullouts/Bottle squeezes Monks 5,6,7 , Bar 'squat' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Monks 19-22 with palms Iso Bow pullout while moving up and down and side to side (self-resistance not isometric) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Current Goal : To change as many isometric exercises on the list to 30-30-30 hold-time protocol, and keep them there.
I don't do them all in the one workout, rather separating groups of them into separate days (and times of the day).
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Post by josepz on Oct 28, 2018 8:55:03 GMT
Hi, FitVet.
The fact that you used the term "power flexes" makes me think that you have read JP's book on isometrics. Those are actually muscle control exercises like the ones in the old Maxalding courses and book, but done mainly in the peak contraction position (as in the old Mike Marvel course and Mike Dayton's "Chi Mind Control"). My current training is almost entirely based (together with bodyweight squats) on muscle control isometrics and they do work if you put the effort. Self resisted (limb vs limb) isometrics also yield very good results, but as the other guys here have already said, you can perform isometrics with weights, bands, straps and bodyweight too, and it will all work as long as you put the right amount of effort.
The old Maxalding website was shut down long ago, but I still have my PDF copies of Maxick's "Muscle Control" and Monte Saldo's "Maxalding" book if you want them.
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Post by FitVet1 on Oct 29, 2018 4:23:15 GMT
Joseph Thank you very much. I would love to have an opportunity to view those courses. Thank you for the input. Macky, I plan to use the program you posted as a template of sorts once I decifer the foreign language..hahaha. Michael, as well as the guy, I apologise I can't remember his handle, that seems to get great results from the 30/30/30 method I will also borrow from things you have posted. This sight is a wealth of knowledge and you guys are giving it our for free. It's fantastic.
However, to hear you guys talk it's like a different language. I spent years in the gym until a spinal injury put an end to all that. After being extremely discouraged I then I found Matt Fury's book, which then lead me to JP's book. Lots of good stuff in both, regardless of what the internet says about the former. I had no idea there were soany different isometric protocols, or that so many people employed isometrics so successfully. Looks like I'm going to need to spend a bit of money to catch up on all the verbage and techniques.
My go forward plan is not to change anything to my routine except to condense my self resistance routine to a 2 day split and on day 3 perform a full body isometric workout with one co traction per muscle group, not more than 8 per workout. Someone posted that number and for some reason( a can't get around it.) What do u guys think to many contractions,not enough. I would like to try the 30/30/30 method because most seem to have a very positive opinion about it but more research is needed. For now I will use 5 seconds to get to Max contraction/5 seconds at Max contraction/the 5 seconds D's to relax the muscle. Any in put guys? Also I misspoke when I said I did powerflexes daily, I should have said visualized resistance. Oh one more thing, what type of rests are you guys taking between isometric contractions?
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Post by macky on Oct 29, 2018 6:32:18 GMT
Joseph Thank you very much. I would love to have an opportunity to view those courses. Thank you for the input. Macky, I plan to use the program you posted as a template of sorts once I decifer the foreign language..hahaha. Michael, as well as the guy, I apologise I can't remember his handle, that seems to get great results from the 30/30/30 method I will also borrow from things you have posted. This sight is a wealth of knowledge and you guys are giving it our for free. It's fantastic. However, to hear you guys talk it's like a different language. I spent years in the gym until a spinal injury put an end to all that. After being extremely discouraged I then I found Matt Fury's book, which then lead me to JP's book. Lots of good stuff in both, regardless of what the internet says about the former. I had no idea there were soany different isometric protocols, or that so many people employed isometrics so successfully. Looks like I'm going to need to spend a bit of money to catch up on all the verbage and techniques. No need to spend any money at all, unless you want a Bullworker or something. If you have a shufti at the section above on Training Publications, Manuals, Courses, you'll see at least three titles there on Isometrics, 'Steve Justa - Iron Isometrics' which can be downloaded for free off the Net now, 'Monks Isometrics', and 'Alexander Zass on building Tendon Strength'. That's a PDF so you can download that, the language is a bit fractured because of translation. The Monks have two charts that can be downloaded. The caution I mentioned is to use your palms to press on your skull with when doing the neck exercises, NOT fingertips.
Once you've seen those, the 'different language' will come clearer, and any further questions can be fixed up no worries. If you haven't done isometrics before, just do one hold each exercise for ten seconds or so, until you get used to it. Don't worry if you don't feel as though you're getting "maximum tension" just have a play for a few weeks, then start working a bit more of a routine. I still believe the isometrics should be separated from the rest of your exercises, but there may come a day where you are comfortable with a mixed workout at once.
I don't think trying on the 30-30-30 hold time is advisable as yet. I know there are some here that would find no trouble with it, but there have been one or two who have, and I had to retreat to a 20-20-10-10 hold protocol because of excessive tiredness the next day. I'm gradually working back up to it. For me, the 30-30-30 hold time protocol is the ultimate, but that's only my preferance, I still do other hold times as well.
Time for me between holds is not an issue, because I don't do a formal workout anyway. Others will be able to give you a better idea. The 30-30-30 or the 20-20-10-10 hold times really only require one "set" on the day, with a day rest in between, and I will knock off a couple of holds then maybe do a few more a half hour later., gradually getting through the lot (of my list) in two days before starting to go through them again, with one day (at least) a week doing nothing, except a few other experimental holds or exercises for a change.
The above are all "overcoming isometrics" so investigate the difference between those and "yielding isometrics". Both types will bring good results. An example of yielding isometrics is (say) hanging from a bar for time, or an elbow plank.
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Post by FitVet1 on Oct 29, 2018 10:59:59 GMT
Mackey, Thanks again for the help. I'll play around and experiment a bit. Breaking g them here and there does sound like a good idea as every contraction could possibly be more focused due to being g more fresh, ie. less tired.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 30, 2018 13:39:32 GMT
As I understand it, Bruce wrote much of the isometrics instructional text that John e. Peterson then plagiarized, bastardized and published into what he claimed were his original thoughts.
Bruce has written another text recently, which he is giving away for free somewhere on this forum and more isometric instructional content can be found in the links below ......>>>>>
VVVVVVV
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Post by fitvet on Oct 30, 2018 13:42:25 GMT
Mr. Potato Head I didn't see any links on your post. I will look for Bruce's material. Thank you.
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Post by fitvet on Oct 30, 2018 13:47:53 GMT
So this morning I did 8 isometrics holds all different muscles and angles. I didn't realize how difficult it would be to fully contract the muscles. I feel like I got a decent workout but man do I need to practice isometrics. I'll likely do some through the day until I feel I can get a super intense contraction.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 30, 2018 14:22:57 GMT
Mr. Potato Head I didn't see any links on your post. I will look for Bruce's material. Thank you. The "LINKS" are labeled "LINKS" at the bottom of every page on this forum, m8. Here's a link to Bruce's free book, recently posted under the heading of the "Training Publications, Manuals, Courses" section of this forum.
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