Bench Vs Pushups

[Barbara]

Nice work Bruce.

[stuke]

I just dont get any feeling in my chest from push ups, or very little. No pump, I always feel it more in my joints and tendons etc. When I do thwm, i use blocks for my hands so I can get a good rangw of motion and I work up to feet on a table or higher, with a weighted back pack too sometimes. The form is very strict but for me, I prefer incline db press over all other chest exercises. I would love for push ups to be the best for me, just isn't the case despite experimenting with hand placememt, reps etc.

[Michael]

Oct 8, 2018 16:08:24 GMT stuke said:

I just dont get any feeling in my chest from push ups, or very little. No pump, I always feel it more in my joints and tendons etc. When I do thwm, i use blocks for my hands so I can get a good rangw of motion and I work up to feet on a table or higher, with a weighted back pack too sometimes. The form is very strict but for me, I prefer incline db press over all other chest exercises. I would love for push ups to be the best for me, just isn't the case despite experimenting with hand placememt, reps etc.

Stuke I would not recommend pushups on boxes especially feet elevated. Some people may get away with it but I started to get right shoulder pain because of these. What's even worst when doing these is pushing high reps with these.

Honestly there's no reason for that much range of motion. I was told by my chiropractor that it could cause shoulder impigment. I get more of a pump in my chest with less range of motion and not going fast. Here's a video they may help.

[Bruce Tackett]

Oct 8, 2018 15:52:22 GMT Barbara said:

Nice work Bruce.

The gentleman in that video is The Face of The Hook - the one and only Whiffet!

[josepz]

Oct 8, 2018 14:34:45 GMT trog said:

I find the bench press much easier than the press up. With a bench press, the body is supported so it is much easier (IMO) to achieve perfect form over the entire set. I find with press ups my form slips after a few reps; I find if difficult to keep the body in a straight line.

Work on your core, m8

[stuke]

Fhanks, I have seen that Athlean x video before, in fact I made a simlle device that allows me to push up on a bar and then move hands inwards, close togefher against resistance. Primitive and not as smooth as I would like, but it does work. Sfill can't feel my pecs or even triceps as much as with dumbells. I do a few unusual movements with a home made pulley too such as one arm press across chest.
I am still a push ups fan though.

One thing I hate is when people brag about reps and proceed to do less than half reps. I see this everywhere and that is why I never listen to people who brag about how many they can do. Same with chin ups.

[TexasRanger]

For both benching & push ups, one needs to also think about safety.

eg The "Moment Arm" for your pectoral starts where the upper arm is slightly in front of the body and forward from there to the point close to lock out on a bench or push up.  When your elbows start going behind the plane of your upper body, the prime movers are your smaller shoulder muscles to include your anterior deltoid and rotator cuff.  Push ups, dips or benches, they all have the same limitation with the Moment Arm/ROM.

Pete Sisco talked about this years ago -- not so much the Moment Arm -- and included some references in one of his books with John Little about the claims one "needs" to do full ROM and mentioned joint issues when going over a full ROM with more and more reps, weight or both.

www.precisiontraining.com/what-about-needing-a-full-range-of-motion/

In any event, ask him this simple question, “Has there ever been a clinical study that demonstrates humans need a full range of motion to build muscle; or a study that demonstrates range of motion plays a bigger role in hypertrophy than the amount of weight lifted?”

Then wait for the silence.

Perhaps it will surprise you to know there is not a single study supporting either conclusion. Nor will there ever be. What? Pete, are you saying you can predict the outcome of future studies? No. What I’m saying is that there are billions of cases over thousands of years of humans building muscle without using a full range of motion. So if a future study concludes that can’t happen, the study will be wrong.

The fact is, outside of the gym and exercise infomercial studios, humans just don’t use a full range of motion when performing high intensity exercise. For example:

When you try to push a car you don’t place your hands near your chest to push, you place them almost fully extended away from you

Likewise, when you push a car you also don’t squat down on you haunches, you barely bend your knees

When you climb a ladder you don’t go three rungs at a time even though you could

When we walk we automatically use a step that is in our strongest and most efficient range of motion, we don’t use our full range of motion

There are millions of construction workers, mechanics, landscapers and others who have very muscular physiques without ever using a full range of motion in their daily jobs.   

And if full range of motion was the crucial road to muscle growth, yoga instructors and martial artists would be winning all the bodybuilding titles because they consistently exercise with the absolute maximum range of motion to develop flexibility.

Sometimes you’ll hear this variation: “If you don’t use a full range of motion, you’ll develop a short muscle.” Again, there is not a single study to back up this assertion. The length and shape of your muscles is determined by who your parents are.

Furthermore, your muscles are permanently attached to your bones. If you do partial reps, your muscles do not disconnect themselves, creep along the bone and reattach themselves during the night in order to become shorter. Won’t happen.

And when you lift the maximum weight possible it requires the work of the maximum number of muscle fibers. Maximum fiber recruitment leads to maximum muscle hypertrophy; which is just one more reason the “short muscle” remark is ridiculous.

For over fifteen years I’ve been showing people how to limit range of motion in favor of lifting more weight in a safer range. I now estimate that over 200,000 people have used my methods to build new muscle.

So the evidence is clear and unambiguous; in the realm of muscle building, range of motion has almost no significance whatsoever. The overwhelming factor of significance is how much weight a muscle lifts. It is better to lift 200 pounds 3 inches than to lift 100 pounds 6 inches. It is better still to lift 400 pounds 1.5 inches. All three lifts represent the same amount of work as far as physics is concerned, yet when you try them in the gym it is the greater weight that taxes your limits, not the greater distance.

[stuke]

Oct 8, 2018 17:47:18 GMT TexasRanger said:

For both benching & push ups, one needs to also think about safety.

eg The "Moment Arm" for your pectoral starts where the upper arm is slightly in front of the body and forward from there to the point close to lock out on a bench or push up.  When your elbows start going behind the plane of your upper body, the prime movers are your smaller shoulder muscles to include your anterior deltoid and rotator cuff.  Push ups, dips or benches, they all have the same limitation with the Moment Arm/ROM.

Pete Sisco talked about this years ago -- not so much the Moment Arm -- and included some references in one of his books with John Little about the claims one "needs" to do full ROM and mentioned joint issues when going over a full ROM with more and more reps, weight or both.

www.precisiontraining.com/what-about-needing-a-full-range-of-motion/

In any event, ask him this simple question, “Has there ever been a clinical study that demonstrates humans need a full range of motion to build muscle; or a study that demonstrates range of motion plays a bigger role in hypertrophy than the amount of weight lifted?”

Then wait for the silence.

Perhaps it will surprise you to know there is not a single study supporting either conclusion. Nor will there ever be. What? Pete, are you saying you can predict the outcome of future studies? No. What I’m saying is that there are billions of cases over thousands of years of humans building muscle without using a full range of motion. So if a future study concludes that can’t happen, the study will be wrong.

The fact is, outside of the gym and exercise infomercial studios, humans just don’t use a full range of motion when performing high intensity exercise. For example:

When you try to push a car you don’t place your hands near your chest to push, you place them almost fully extended away from you

Likewise, when you push a car you also don’t squat down on you haunches, you barely bend your knees

When you climb a ladder you don’t go three rungs at a time even though you could

When we walk we automatically use a step that is in our strongest and most efficient range of motion, we don’t use our full range of motion

There are millions of construction workers, mechanics, landscapers and others who have very muscular physiques without ever using a full range of motion in their daily jobs.   

And if full range of motion was the crucial road to muscle growth, yoga instructors and martial artists would be winning all the bodybuilding titles because they consistently exercise with the absolute maximum range of motion to develop flexibility.

Sometimes you’ll hear this variation: “If you don’t use a full range of motion, you’ll develop a short muscle.” Again, there is not a single study to back up this assertion. The length and shape of your muscles is determined by who your parents are.

Furthermore, your muscles are permanently attached to your bones. If you do partial reps, your muscles do not disconnect themselves, creep along the bone and reattach themselves during the night in order to become shorter. Won’t happen.

And when you lift the maximum weight possible it requires the work of the maximum number of muscle fibers. Maximum fiber recruitment leads to maximum muscle hypertrophy; which is just one more reason the “short muscle” remark is ridiculous.

For over fifteen years I’ve been showing people how to limit range of motion in favor of lifting more weight in a safer range. I now estimate that over 200,000 people have used my methods to build new muscle.

So the evidence is clear and unambiguous; in the realm of muscle building, range of motion has almost no significance whatsoever. The overwhelming factor of significance is how much weight a muscle lifts. It is better to lift 200 pounds 3 inches than to lift 100 pounds 6 inches. It is better still to lift 400 pounds 1.5 inches. All three lifts represent the same amount of work as far as physics is concerned, yet when you try them in the gym it is the greater weight that taxes your limits, not the greater distance.

This is the sort of stuff I love reading. The logic is pretty convincing. After seeing so many bodybuilders use poor form and short rangre of motion, I have often wondered how important a full range of motion is. Who decided that parallel squats are 'just right' as opposed to say quarter squats, or ass to ground. I think it makes a lot of sense but there will most likely be limits to how far this can apply.
I take the point about push ups, I've always gone with a full range of motion where I can and I have to say, sometimes I have suffered for it. No more blocks for my push ups!

[gruntbrain]

I believe full ROM exercises using KSHD are a safe way to promote joint health

[mr potatohead]

Oct 8, 2018 22:48:35 GMT gruntbrain said:

I believe full ROM exercises using KSHD are a safe way to promote joint health

Do you feel full ROM is "better" than one position or limited movement? If so, could you please tell in what way it is better for joints than one position?

[PatrickGuest]

Why is Peter Sisco obese?

[josepz]

Oct 9, 2018 6:46:47 GMT PatrickGuest said:

Why is Peter Sisco obese?

Why is that important? He may well be knowledgeable and yet not put that knowledge to practice. He probably doesn't work out anymore. Neither did Mike Mentzer in his later years, but that didn't invalidate all the knowledge he acquired.

[PatrickGuest]

If that is not important in a health related discipline that I don´t know what is. Unless he has not a special condition it says a lot about him and his bold claims.

[josepz]

Oct 9, 2018 8:18:28 GMT PatrickGuest said:

If that is not important in a health related discipline that I don´t know what is. Unless he has not a special condition it says a lot about him and his bold claims.

I'd rather look at the people who follow his programs/advice. True that not looking the part is a bad business strategy. But it doesn't invalidate what he says per se.

[Deleted]

What dickhead made a video using the word warrior in the title. Utter knob