TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Aug 21, 2018 1:21:46 GMT
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MBS
Caneguru
Lean, lithe and feral
Posts: 1,300
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Post by MBS on Aug 21, 2018 1:31:18 GMT
^^^^^^i didn’t click on the link, because I’m already convinced a plant based diet with small amounts of quality animal protein, is the best approach. No dogma, just real food, and giving the body what it needs to stay youthful as long as possible.
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Post by donovan5 on Aug 21, 2018 5:29:26 GMT
Lot of maybes in that link and some of the tests aren't exactly equal. Putting someone on a clean diet ,that happens to be plant based up against someone eating whatever thet felt like,not exactly a fair comparison. It may well be that a vegan diet is healthier but I didn't see any conclusive evidence in that link
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 9:57:20 GMT
I prefer eating a low carb paleo diet as that is what works best for me and it has been the natural diet for man since we been walking on earth ! Let's go back 10'000 years ago and try to survive on a vegan diet and especially in the winter time, there would not have been enough plants or "vegan" foods to sustain us, plus the energy we would of used from day to day living and then searching for enough plant foods(and preparing) to eat would have put us in an energy deficit, that's why meat and fat is so "prized" in hunter gatherer societies because it is so calorie and nutrient dense and can sustain us much more than a plant based diet .
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Aug 21, 2018 10:36:43 GMT
I prefer eating a low carb paleo diet as that is what works best for me and it has been the natural diet for man since we been walking on earth ! Let's go back 10'000 years ago and try to survive on a vegan diet and especially in the winter time, there would not have been enough plants or "vegan" foods to sustain us, plus the energy we would of used from day to day living and then searching for enough plant foods(and preparing) to eat would have put us in an energy deficit, that's why meat and fat is so "prized" in hunter gatherer societies because it is so calorie and nutrient dense and can sustain us much more than a plant based diet . Hi Bazza, Actually, a true "paleo" diet isn't what we see/hear about in the popular websites. And,as our ancestors were concentrated around warmer regions for thousands of years as historians have shown, it was a very slow migration out of those areas into southern Europe, etc. Another consideration? Our digestive systems are nearly 1:1 or very close that of apes who subside on a diet that is predominantly plant based/vegetation along with bugs (on the plants), small animals or the rare times they'll eat other apes. If one were to head out in the wilds and try to survive, the nonsensical "paleo" or ridiculous "Atkins" diet would not last for more than a couple of days. - First, try to find eggs in abundance. Bacon? Won't happen. Depending on where you're at and the time of the year, and, if you're willing to climb and tree or hillside -- and waste energy that could be used elsewhere -- eggs are a waste of time. - Second, fatty meats? Again, try to find them in the wild. Venison, elk, boar, etc., and leaner than domesticated. In fact, head out in the wild...the animals with the fattiest meats are in the coldest climates which humans weren't eating until migrations started moving out of the warmer climates. - Butter? Didn't come about until cattle were domesticated and even then it is a relatively new addition to our diets. - Lard. No way. Try to collect a can of lard from wild animals vs. domesticated pork or cattle. Would be incredibly difficult. One alleged "expert" on this topic, Gary Taubes of the US newspaper the NY Times who also wrote books like Big Fat Lies makes all kinds of idiotic claims regarding the ideal diet, sitting in an office in downtown New York City. Well, after I read his book I asked him if he'd actually stepped out of his comfortable office and into the wild and tried to eat a "paleo" diet that reflects what he recommends? (No) What does he do for exercise that emulates our paleo ancestors? (His answer? He doesn't exercise.) Robb Wolf, who is a little more sane in his dietary recommendations for paleo diets, also admits the same...everything he recommends comes from a comfortable home/office in California. (At least he works out.) There's a big reason why they're Hunter- Gatherer societies. (grin) You gather roots, edible berries, even some wild grains if you know what you're looking for. (There's a wealth of ignored historical evidence hunter-gatherers actually had grains as part of their meals.) Next, you also try to find small and easily caught game so you have the food (energy) to get the bigger game. Survival school teaches this and it is a very similar approach to what you read with hunter-gatherer societies or what comprised our ancestral diets. Just my lengthy but humble opinion: we can learn from many of these so-called paleo claims...as there's much to be gained from them (eg processed carbs wreak havoc on our hormonal systems, dairy was never part of our ancestral diet, etc.)...as we can from vegan diets.
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Aug 21, 2018 11:39:04 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 15:51:54 GMT
Obviously the article is biased as it is written by "Dr" McDougall ! With all due respect i could easily link a load of articles which prove that a paleo style diet is superior to a vegan diet heck I'm sure if I searched on Google long enough i could find proof that eating your own shit will reverse aging and make you a millionaire . There is extensive hard proof that ancient humans were meat eaters and it's the reason why we grew larger brains and our stomachs shrunk , if we didn't eat meat we may not have turned out to be the humans that we are today, we would still be chimps picking bugs out of each others nose and ears and swinging from the to tree looking for a banana . I live in the UK and if we had no supermarkets or stores here to buy food and lived like we did 10'000 years ago im pretty sure I would not be living off hummus, tofu, cucumbers, soy milk or cereal fortified with B12 . But after all said and done just eat what ever makes you happy . I've done the whole vegan bullshit before and it messed me up , i feel and look much better when I eat low carb high fat with moderate protein . Rant over I'm about to smash a workout ! Peace out people 👍
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Post by stormshadow on Aug 21, 2018 18:09:16 GMT
I agree that vegetables and fruits should be a part of a healthy and balanced diet. I knew a bodybuilder who summed it up very concisely. He only ate things that consumed oxygen (animals and fish) and those things that grew in plants and trees above ground.I asked him why not below ground. He said, potatoes, beets, carrots, turnips were too "sugary". This was from a previous sugar fiend. I don't agree with this but it was a unique take from many many years ago before Paleo became popular. He was ripped, but besides training like a maniac he had super fast metabolism. Before he changed his lifestlye, he smoked, ate Pop tarts and donuts, drank soda and Yahoo chocolate drink. He ate fries almost every day except when he wanted to eat healthier and then he ate onion rings because of the phosphorous and sulfur compounds. He even ate these things called Potato sticks that came in a can. Not even sure if they make those anymore.
Before bodybuilding, he was not muscular, but always had defined abs. Not sure what became of him. He became bodybuilder because he said he wanted women to lust after him. I prefer ones that fall off treadmills myself.
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Post by stormshadow on Aug 21, 2018 18:12:59 GMT
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Post by DrunkenMonkey on Aug 21, 2018 19:26:58 GMT
Great response. Did all the heavy lifting for me. Cracks me up when low-carb bros are like, "it would waste too many calories gathering primitive lettuce and shit," but then act like hunting big game with nothing but a bamboo stick as a tool somehow evens it all out. Here's an article that shows how a recent discovery proves we've been eating bread for at least 14,000 years (that would place it in the "paleo" era, my friends). Which, in turn, suggests we've been eating grains for even longer. gizmodo.com/discovery-of-14-000-year-old-toast-suggests-bread-can-b-1827631358
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Post by gruntbrain on Aug 21, 2018 19:53:29 GMT
Although Atkins style diets can result weight loss, I'd be concerned about their long term effects on mortality .
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 20:01:58 GMT
Well hunting big game would of gave the low carb bro's much more nutrient dense calories then say a bunch of lettuce and shit ! If you believe that we was grinding up grains to make toast for breakfast lunch and dinner then I feel sorry for you mate . Grains may have made up a very small part of the diet but the most valuable food would have been fatty meat which has been proven through bone analysis , also recent studies prove that we was eating meat as far back as 3.4 million years ago ! So eat your meat up lads and treat your body
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Post by DrunkenMonkey on Aug 21, 2018 21:24:52 GMT
Well hunting big game would of gave the low carb bro's much more nutrient dense calories then say a bunch of lettuce and shit ! If you believe that we was grinding up grains to make toast for breakfast lunch and dinner then I feel sorry for you mate . Grains may have made up a very small part of the diet but the most valuable food would have been fatty meat which has been proven through bone analysis , also recent studies prove that we was eating meat as far back as 3.4 million years ago ! So eat your meat up lads and treat your body So most of the research that you're probably referring to was done in environments that were colder than where humans have resided for most of their (our) history. Yes, in Northern Europe and in the far north of North America, the diet of humans consisted primarily of fatty meat. There are a number of caveats, though. Number one, again, most humans were not living in those cold conditions. Two, humans in those environments still ate more vegetables than they get credit for. Three, the big game they hunted were fatter and slower and than animals that lived in warmer regions, so they were easier to hunt and required less of a caloric expenditure while providing more calorically dense foodstuffs in return. Four, because these environments are not easily conducive to human survival, diets heavy in meat are still relatively new and only humans descended from these primitive meat-eaters seem to derive the most benefit from such a diet. Five, colder environments preserve matter much better than warmer environments, that fact combined with relatively low populations that lived in the cold environments mean that the bones (and other matter) were better preserved than whatever food was being consumed in warmer environments. Most of the research out there that has tried to determine what our earliest ancestors were eating come to the conclusion that we were omnivores, of course, but that our diets were most heavy in fruits and vegetables. Gotta remember that humans that lived in warmer environments had to hunt game that was leaner (IE less calorically dense) and faster (IE more caloric expenditure) that humans living in colder environments. The caloric tradeoff in hunting big game is not a clear-cut as you make it. Again, take a bamboo stick, sharpen one edge of it using rocks, and then chase after some antelope and see how far you get. You need a fairly large number of people to get it done, then you have to share that lean meat with every hunter and their families. Here's a good article that talks about how at an ancient campsite they found more than 50 kinds of fruits/vegetables that had been eaten at that site, and edible plants of some kind were available year-round. Edible vegetation, while providing less calorically-dense sustenence, was more readily available than many people think, particularly in warmer climates. www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/paleo-diet-may-need-a-rewrite-ancient-humans-feasted-wide-variety-plants-180961402/
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denis
Caneguru
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Post by denis on Jun 20, 2023 3:52:42 GMT
Just for the record: anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/ar.b.20107CONCLUSIONS Comparative Morphology From my perspective as a systematist and evolutionary biologist, compara- tive primate morphology seems to be one of the most overlooked and un- derstudied fields of modern biology, which has suffered a clear decline in scope and depth since the mid-20th century. It is probably not an exagger- ation to say that there is far more morphology known for some obscure insect groups than there is for all known primates. The science of mor- phology has become so degraded in hominid systematics that selective withholding of access to holotypes (e.g., Ardipithecus, Australopithecus bahralghazali, A. garhi, and Kenyan- thropus platyops) (Schwartz and Tat- tersall, 2005) is a disgraceful problem contrary to the intent of the Interna- tional Code of Zoological Nomencla- ture. Hominid taxonomy also often lacks corroborating outgroup and in- group documentation (Schwartz, 2004c; Schwartz and Tattersall, 2005), and perhaps primate morphology is “intractable” (Pilbeam, 2000) only be- cause the necessary standards of com- parative documentation and speci- men access are so often lacking (see also Winkler, 1995). Current morphological evidence does not justify recent claims by mor- phologists (Begun, 1999) or geneti- cists (Goodman et al., 1994) that mor- phology supports a close phylogenetic relationship between humans and chimpanzee or both African apes to the exclusion of the orangutan. In- stead, it is the claim of DNA hege- mony over morphology that may be in doubt. Comparative morphology sup- ports a unique common ancestry for humans and orangutans as the only phylogenetic theory with substantial corroborated evidence
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moxohol
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Biohacker
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Post by moxohol on Jun 20, 2023 6:51:44 GMT
I don’t think ancient produce cultivars or diets had high glycemic carb index nor high fructose corn syrup back then either. The introduction of sugar into the diet during the Medieval Age saw an upsurge in gout.
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