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Post by ilya on Feb 21, 2025 18:45:47 GMT
I was checking out "Samson's System and Methods" hoping to find hints on how precisely he performed isometrics. Unfortunately, he doesn't offer anything of the sort and the whole thing is pretty much just an ad for his actual course. I did find some bit about calisthenics that I found interesting:  I'm not sure if he meant contracting the entire body at the same time, or only the muscles intended for the exercise. Instinctively, I would assume the latter, but in this case I'm not certain, because I remember reading somewhere else that he advocated for full-body tension when doing isometrics. It's also interesting that he specifically says to avoid contracting until you feel yourself vibrating. Has any of you guys ever tried this? |
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Feb 21, 2025 19:29:57 GMT
I don't think Zass is envisioning this exactly, but it sounds to me like what makes up a bodybuilder posing routine. That can give you a workout, but (at least) some muscle built by something external should be there first.
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Post by ilya on Feb 21, 2025 19:55:28 GMT
I don't think Zass is envisioning this exactly, but it sounds to me like what makes up a bodybuilder posing routine. That can give you a workout, but (at least) some muscle built by something external should be there first. The "know your muscles" paragraph, I agree, sounds more like posing routine, or, probably more accurately, like "muscle control" Maxick-style. I think that its clear though that the other two paragraphs are about tensed calisthenics, because what he describes sounds exactly like calisthenics. "Too many movements are required before any noticeable increase in size is created", "the monotony so often experienced by those who practise systems of this nature". Those are exactly words you'd use to describe high-rep calisthenics. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2025 21:00:30 GMT
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Post by Deuce Gunner on Feb 21, 2025 22:54:13 GMT
I don't think Zass is envisioning this exactly, but it sounds to me like what makes up a bodybuilder posing routine. That can give you a workout, but (at least) some muscle built by something external should be there first. The "know your muscles" paragraph, I agree, sounds more like posing routine, or, probably more accurately, like "muscle control" Maxick-style. I think that its clear though that the other two paragraphs are about tensed calisthenics, because what he describes sounds exactly like calisthenics. "Too many movements are required before any noticeable increase in size is created", "the monotony so often experienced by those who practise systems of this nature". Those are exactly words you'd use to describe high-rep calisthenics. I've read other old-time exercise programs from back in that day that extoled the reader to perform their exercises with "vim and pep". Might very well be the same type of advice. Regardless, it's still tensing muscles through full range of motion. That's a way to possibly build some minor lumps, but it does nothing for athleticism. A tensed muscle cannot move with any kind of speed. |
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teacup
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Post by teacup on Feb 22, 2025 7:56:00 GMT
I don't think Zass is envisioning this exactly, but it sounds to me like what makes up a bodybuilder posing routine. That can give you a workout, but (at least) some muscle built by something external should be there first. The "know your muscles" paragraph, I agree, sounds more like posing routine, or, probably more accurately, like "muscle control" Maxick-style. I think that its clear though that the other two paragraphs are about tensed calisthenics, because what he describes sounds exactly like calisthenics. "Too many movements are required before any noticeable increase in size is created", "the monotony so often experienced by those who practise systems of this nature". Those are exactly words you'd use to describe high-rep calisthenics. Tensed callisthenics are good. I’ve used tensed pushups and squats, they tire the muscles quite quickly. Kneeling pushups really help focus the work into the pecs, and I find one legged squats give a tough workout (start with knee of the non working leg on the ground and use that leg to stabilise). It does require more reps to get a decent pump though. I recall reading a thread on KSHD by Douglis where he performed tension pushups High Intensity style at around 20 reps. |
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Post by eudaimonia on Feb 22, 2025 8:28:19 GMT
Zass course recommended isometrics followed by dynamic movement. In this case, sandbag training.
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brothersteve
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Post by brothersteve on Feb 22, 2025 11:45:58 GMT
....this is what is was like back in the day when you wanted to listen to music while out for a stroll....no Sony walkman's back then. |
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Post by brothersteve on Feb 22, 2025 12:00:15 GMT
I'm a big fan of the old-time courses and tension exercises.
It all depends on what you want. For me, a static hold (isometric) does not give me a pump and I cannot get hypertrophy without a pump. So, if the goal is to get larger muscles I need isotonic's and between 45 to 72 seconds of time under tension in a set. Multiple sets are needed, around 4 for me, several times per week and not daily.
A good, extremely hard, daily contraction for about 5 seconds feels great and, for me, keeps me strong but does nothing for my muscular endurance.
For example, it has snowed here daily for many weeks now and I shovel and roof rake everyday. I get pumped doing this and know I should not workout with my bullworker as I know at my age the additional exercise on my muscles would create an over-trained effect that is unacceptable and will hinder my needed performance. I am in better cardio and muscular endurance shape now because of the daily work, but am not satisfied as I don't get to contract my muscles like I use to.
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Post by ilya on Feb 22, 2025 17:59:16 GMT
Thanks for trying, but that's nothing new and it doesn't actually reveal the specifics of what he did in term of duration, reps, or frequency. There's just one reference to The Physiology of Strength, which is a book that came out a year before Zass died, so it's very unlikely that his actual training resembled this. I think his actual method was lost in time, sadly. I've read other old-time exercise programs from back in that day that extoled the reader to perform their exercises with "vim and pep". Might very well be the same type of advice. Regardless, it's still tensing muscles through full range of motion. That's a way to possibly build some minor lumps, but it does nothing for athleticism. A tensed muscle cannot move with any kind of speed. I think that "vim and pep" and other such advice probably meant with speed. Here's a similar advice from Martin Burns:  Tensed callisthenics are good. I’ve used tensed pushups and squats, they tire the muscles quite quickly. Kneeling pushups really help focus the work into the pecs, and I find one legged squats give a tough workout (start with knee of the non working leg on the ground and use that leg to stabilise). It does require more reps to get a decent pump though. I recall reading a thread on KSHD by Douglis where he performed tension pushups High Intensity style at around 20 reps. Yes, I've only started a few days ago, so I can't really say if it's effective yet, but it definitely is quickly tiring. I avoid going to failure and I still end up sore the next day. I don't know what KSHD is or who Douglis is, did he get good results from this? |
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Post by teacup on Feb 22, 2025 21:59:15 GMT
Hi ilya,
I hope more knowledgeable members will correct any errors I make here. KSHD is Kin Shi Hai Do, the name Mr Bruce Tackett gave to a system of training where you mentally generate the resistance. It’s also known as DVR (Dynamic Visualised Resistance) or VRT (Visualised Resistance Training), the name used by Mr Greg Mangan.
Essentially, you think of an image that you need to exercise against e.g. a massive barbell, heavy ceiling falling on you (which Frank Rudolph Young used in his Yogametrics method) or any fancy exercise machine in the world, and perform the exercises against that imagined resistance. John McSweeney used a similar technique in his Tiger Moves.
Douglis and Royce wrote a lot about Mike Mentzer/Arthur Jones style training using this method and I think Douglis reported great results in terms of muscle mass.
I joined the forum too late to correspond with Mr Tackett, Royce or Douglis (sadly I missed out on learning a lot there) so I hope more senior members will provide better informed perspectives if I have missed any useful details.
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Post by eudaimonia on Feb 23, 2025 9:47:49 GMT
The old Maxalding muscle control exercises are an excellent complement to calisthenics as long as they're done in the stretched range as much as possible. This is based off the demonstrated concept of loaded stretching done with weights.
You can superset them together or use the Maxalding exercises as a separate prelude to calisthenics with a short interim rest period prior to performing the dynamic exercise portion which will give you a true pump. BTW, it's not an original idea here because it's been already posted elsewhere in other threads I've read and found it to be true.
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Post by ilya on Feb 23, 2025 18:49:05 GMT
Hi ilya, I hope more knowledgeable members will correct any errors I make here. KSHD is Kin Shi Hai Do, the name Mr Bruce Tackett gave to a system of training where you mentally generate the resistance. It’s also known as DVR (Dynamic Visualised Resistance) or VRT (Visualised Resistance Training), the name used by Mr Greg Mangan. Essentially, you think of an image that you need to exercise against e.g. a massive barbell, heavy ceiling falling on you (which Frank Rudolph Young used in his Yogametrics method) or any fancy exercise machine in the world, and perform the exercises against that imagined resistance. John McSweeney used a similar technique in his Tiger Moves. Douglis and Royce wrote a lot about Mike Mentzer/Arthur Jones style training using this method and I think Douglis reported great results in terms of muscle mass. I joined the forum too late to correspond with Mr Tackett, Royce or Douglis (sadly I missed out on learning a lot there) so I hope more senior members will provide better informed perspectives if I have missed any useful details. Alright, thanks for the clarification. I've tried this kind of stuff before because I find the idea very appealing, but I never personally had any success with it. I've never heard of it being used Menzer style, though. The idea does make sense because every time I try DVR, I find it very taxing, especially on the connective tissues, so maybe I just needed more rest. If you have more info on what Douglis and Royce wrote about that, I'd be curious to see it. The old Maxalding muscle control exercises are an excellent complement to calisthenics as long as they're done in the stretched range as much as possible. This is based off the demonstrated concept of loaded stretching done with weights. You can superset them together or use the Maxalding exercises as a separate prelude to calisthenics with a short interim rest period prior to performing the dynamic exercise portion which will give you a true pump. BTW, it's not an original idea here because it's been already posted elsewhere in other threads I've read and found it to be true. Maxalding is another concept that fascinates me, but that I haven't been able to really figure out. The abs stuff is especially interesting, but I can't get mine to look anything like in the pictures. It's really a shame that all of those men had to be born in an era when videos were inconvenient to make. Now we're just stuck with youtube roiders. |
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Post by eudaimonia on Feb 24, 2025 6:28:42 GMT
Hi ilya, I hope more knowledgeable members will correct any errors I make here. KSHD is Kin Shi Hai Do, the name Mr Bruce Tackett gave to a system of training where you mentally generate the resistance. It’s also known as DVR (Dynamic Visualised Resistance) or VRT (Visualised Resistance Training), the name used by Mr Greg Mangan. Essentially, you think of an image that you need to exercise against e.g. a massive barbell, heavy ceiling falling on you (which Frank Rudolph Young used in his Yogametrics method) or any fancy exercise machine in the world, and perform the exercises against that imagined resistance. John McSweeney used a similar technique in his Tiger Moves. Douglis and Royce wrote a lot about Mike Mentzer/Arthur Jones style training using this method and I think Douglis reported great results in terms of muscle mass. I joined the forum too late to correspond with Mr Tackett, Royce or Douglis (sadly I missed out on learning a lot there) so I hope more senior members will provide better informed perspectives if I have missed any useful details. Alright, thanks for the clarification. I've tried this kind of stuff before because I find the idea very appealing, but I never personally had any success with it. I've never heard of it being used Menzer style, though. The idea does make sense because every time I try DVR, I find it very taxing, especially on the connective tissues, so maybe I just needed more rest. If you have more info on what Douglis and Royce wrote about that, I'd be curious to see it. The old Maxalding muscle control exercises are an excellent complement to calisthenics as long as they're done in the stretched range as much as possible. This is based off the demonstrated concept of loaded stretching done with weights. You can superset them together or use the Maxalding exercises as a separate prelude to calisthenics with a short interim rest period prior to performing the dynamic exercise portion which will give you a true pump. BTW, it's not an original idea here because it's been already posted elsewhere in other threads I've read and found it to be true. Maxalding is another concept that fascinates me, but that I haven't been able to really figure out. The abs stuff is especially interesting, but I can't get mine to look anything like in the pictures. It's really a shame that all of those men had to be born in an era when videos were inconvenient to make. Now we're just stuck with youtube roiders. According to Golden Age Bookworm YouTube channel: Bronze Age maxalders intermittently fasted (dry fast kind). There's a library of other videos about Maxalding techniques there too. You can fetch a display of actual muscle control techniques, circa 1925, by Otto Arco anywhere on YouTube. There are also free manuals available online I believe at archive.org or from any torrent search on Maxalding/muscle control by Otto Arco or Antone Matysek too. Otto Arco published a 3 volume set course. |
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teacup
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Post by teacup on Feb 24, 2025 14:22:55 GMT
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