Loaded Stretching

[mr potatohead]

Here is Pavel with some good advice on tensioned/loaded stretching using BW, weights and overcoming isometrics.
I found the following videos while trying to find a good one about Dennis Rogers training of tendon strength using overcoming isometrics.

@14:03 Pavel demonstrates a favorite exercise of mine, a loaded triceps stretch, but I do one arm at a time.
I feel like I can get a better stretch using only one arm at a time.
I just hang on, elbow pointed at the sky, relax my tricep and shoulder and let the weight sink down as I relax, even leaning back a bit to get as much stretch as possible while I keep my arm close to my head. As much as possible, the only muscle contraction I want to maintain for this is grip.
If I twist a bit and lean to the opposite of the loaded side with the weight near my opposite arm pit, I can even get a stretch that I can feel into my oblique on the loaded side.

Pete Wagner said repeatedly to "hold weights in strong positions" and demonstrated some of what Pavel does in this video (like the RKC Loaded Clean Stretch and the Triceps Stretch) plus much more, but using his DIY sandbags, fitted with rope and PVC for handles. He would move them around to hold in different positions from behind his back to the side and in front.
He would also use weight plates with the handle cut-outs, one in each hand, and swing them forward and back in an unforced rhythm which is similar to a farmer carry, but without walking and which stretches the biceps and upper torso.





Here's a guy (Kevin Palko) who is a rock climber talking about how he had built tendon strength using isometric holds.
He also demonstrates one of his exercise sessions, during which he pauses to make comments about strengthening tendons.

[mr potatohead]

I realized key to strength, the key to using as much available potential muscle power as possible, when I read what George Jowett, Ted Arcidi, Chuck Sipes, Earle Leiderman, Brooks Kubik had to say about tensioned (TUT) stretching/isometrics/holds-pauses in chapter 9 of "The Old School Strength Training Secrets Bible" by Dave Yarnell.

The accomplished isometric strength requirement of a free climber is revealed when you look at their forearm/wrists.
Their tendons looks like thick steel cables due to the OC isometric tensioned holds they do for time when gripping onto rocks - which, of course, do not compress.

HERE's an article from "The Ultimate Guide to Tendon Training (2023 Edition)", (posted November 29, 2022) which has rediscovered that 'old school' knowledge.

....... Any time you place the muscles under load, you are doing the same thing to the tendons.
You are only as strong as your weakest link. ......

....... But all this is also very logical:
continuous time under tension and occlusion training place significant demand on tendon blood supply.
(mikey note: tensioned - TUT - stretching isometrics activate the body's own automatic occlusion.)
The body responds by increasing that blood supply. Following such training, the body now has greater blood flow to the affected region, enabling more rapid recovery and lower incidence of injury. ......

....... Lifting heavy weights will always place the tendons under force. However, the amount of force will always be limited as the muscles act like a buffer. And because the tendons can handle greater force than the muscle, weight training alone is not enough to tap into their maximum potential. ......


....... In the past, I have discussed using techniques such as heavy partials (moves like rack pulls) to place the tendons under greater load than you normally could. Heavy negatives can work in the same manner – letting you support more weight than you can lift.

Another option is to use weighted stretching. Weighted stretching uses lighter weight but takes you through a much greater range of motion than does regular training. And because the muscle reaches its maximum length, this means that much more force is going to be transferred to the tendon.

Weighted Stretching

Weighted stretching can increase range of motion and mobility. It can help you to generate strength from a stretched position (such as the bottom of a squat for a far more MASSIVE jump height) and it can make you incredibly resilient against injury. 

And this is where the narrative around training has traditionally been all wrong.
For decades now, the advice has been to avoid any movements that place strain on the tendons. .......

(source: The Bioneer (Adam Sinicki) & Ben Patrick (KneesOverToesGuy)

There are a number of examples of loaded or tensioned stretching in the film, which is in the article by the Bioneer.

In the Bioneer "Ultimate Guide" article section "The Power of Isometric Training" it says this:

The Power of Isometric Training
Another option is isometric training. This means training without moving: holding a weight in position or pushing/pulling against an immovable object. In these cases, because the muscle is not lengthening or shortening, more force is transferred to the tendons.

This makes extreme isometrics a powerful tool for training tendons and increasing blood flow in perhaps an even more targeted manner than the aforementioned “pump training.” An extreme isometric exercise is simply a yielding isometric held for a very long period of time. A good example might be holding a horse stance for two minutes. Indeed, a large focus of Shaolin training was originally to strengthen the “sinew.”

Quasi isometrics – extremely slow reps of challenging movements – could also be effective to this end.

Meanwhile, you can use overcoming isometrics – where you push or pull against a completely immovable force for around six seconds to build significantly greater tendon strength. Ballistic isometrics could also be useful – where you perform isometrics with explosive intent.

And if you want to see a visceral example of how this can lead to tendon remodelling and growth, just look at the hands of any rock climber that has been training for a few years. They will typically have huge hands and thick fingers, as a result of hanging from the fingers, stretching them, exploding from them, and using them on a near daily basis.

The result is that they can perform feats such as hanging from one finger from a finger board while wearing a weighted backpack. The same kind of stunt would rip most people’s fingers clean from the socket.

The Bioneer chose the word "weighted" stretching.
Instead of "weighted", I chose to use the word "tensioned" (tensioned (TUT) stretching) or could also use the word "loaded" (as in TUL), because the tension can be provided in ways other than iron weights, like by using just BW, bands, straps, chains, a doorway, an OH bar, rope, etc, etc.


The main concept is this, as quoted from the article text:

(In the stretched, tensioned/stressed/loaded position .......)
"the muscle reaches its maximum length,
this means that much more force is going to be transferred to the tendon".
This does NOT mean that the muscle will not be challenged, just that the emphasis will be more favorable toward tendon growth.

FYI, If you want to see my posts from the past on this subject, one way to search the forum archives on this forum 
(I don't know how to search the old Zen forum on happytappy cuz I never access it - due to my hatred for it) 
would be to enter "Jowett" and qualify with "member mikey".

stuke wrote:
Bottom of squats, quads are stretched yes, but it would be the bottom of a chin up, that is when the lats are stretched, they contract to pull the arms down (when chinning).

Other examples would be side delts - lay on your side on a bench and hold a dumbbell just a little above your side.

Front delts - bottom of a military press, but for much better stretch probably better using front raise whilst laid on an incline bench.

Biceps - bottom of an incline curl

and so on.

Yes, stuke has it right.

Any exercise that builds strength, builds all connective tissue.
If it builds muscle, it builds tendons, but that does not define which type of exercise builds more tendon than muscle.

To cause the body to focus on building more tendon than muscle, the best I know of is isometrics used on the tendon-muscle-tendon chain where they want the tendon strength to receive the most benefit. Obtaining the most benefit to the tendons is by applying tension/resistance/weight when the muscle is already at full extension. That's when the tendons bear most of the stress.

Like the examples stuke cites above.
You could also strengthen side delts by standing with side up against a wall which will prevent from raising your arm to the side, because that overcoming iso effort stresses the tendons more than the muscle. Using the wall or doorway, you can also turn to face toward (front delts) or away (rear delts) from it and do both arms at the same time.


The more near the muscle is to it's extreme limit of extension/length (most stretched position) and prohibiting the muscle from moving and changing the joint angle in contraction, the more the tendons connected to it will be stimulated to grow during recovery.


Any light, repetitive, warm-up type movement, like walking, Amisov squats, arm swinging/circles, pumping, etc, that stimulates blood flow will help tendon recovery, since the reason muscles recover almost 10x faster than tendons is due to lower blood flow in tendon tissue.


One of the points made in the Bioneer film is that guys who have developed tendon strength may not have muscle appearance as big as another guy, since muscle is much easier to build, but they may be stronger due to stronger tendons and able to use more of the muscle that they do have.
Dennis Rogers was measured for his deceptive strength and astounded the researchers who were measuring him who found that, due to his development of tendons, he could easily recruit something like 80% or more of his available muscle strength while most people do well to recruit even 30%.
Most people have way more muscle strength than their tendons can handle, which is why some tear out connective tissue during a max effort.
They have weak connective cables (tendons). They've impatiently built their muscles up without putting in the effort or allowing the time to bring the tendon strength along.
That's why I spend most of my exercise time doing (loaded or tensioned) stretching. If I focus on building tendon strength, muscle strength will be an automatic by-product, IMO.

[stuke]

Great thread. I believe daily loaded stretches in the bottom position of a barbell or trap bar shrug during my period of nucleus iverload training for my traps contributed to my trap growth. Around 5 days a week, on top of shrug movements I would hold the bar for a total of 5 mins, occasiinally in kne go but usually a hold of maybe 3 mins, then a 2.
I realised that a lot of powerlifters have good traps, yet I never saw any doing shrugs during my time with some of the guys from the British Powerlifting team. I am sure that weighted stretches alone are more than enough to stimulate growth, but I do shrugs as well anyway, why not?
I am sure most of you will have heard of the studies where a bird had a weight hung from its wing for a number of days and experienced a lot of growth. Yeah, it's a bird, I know, but still...

This article covers weighted stretches, I don't particularly agree with the need for drop sets etc but can't do any harm to flush some blood into the area can it.

www.t-nation.com/training/the-most-painful-way-to-build-muscle/

[mr potatohead]

I have a hunch that most people who "try" isometric holds/loaded stretching for a period of time do not stick with it, be consistent, give proper effort or allow the 10x amount of time it takes to make a difference.
Plus, being sold by media to equate and confuse appearance with reality, they want, and are impatient, to "see muscle" because we've been brainwashed by media to look at muscle development as translating directly to strength, which is bollocks.

If it takes them 6 months to build muscle to a certain size, and they want to realize and display that same amount of development in muscle size, BUT, by focusing their effort on strengthening the muscle's cable attachments (tendons/sinews) instead of the BB'er shortcut, it's going to take a while ..... 6 months of BB'ing would equate to maybe 4 or 5 years (?) of tendon strengthening/development.
But, if they can hang with it, be consistent, determined and patient they will have that "6 month" muscle development in 4 or 5 years (?) AND the cable attachment tissues to actually use its potential. 

I do think, though, that someone who has already built a highly muscled physique can bring the other, lower blood flow, connective tissue along by proceeding gently, wisely, patiently. The danger is that they will look in the mirror and believe the story in their head - that they are strong because they have large muscles - self deception, it happens a lot ..... as we have seen clearly in the last several years.

I wish I had known this a long time ago.
I'm just way too impatient sometimes, plus no one told me.


As Russell Brand says, "But, this is just what I think. What do you think? Let me know in the comment section!"

                                                                                                                                     

[Deleted]

The article Stuke posted said the results between the people that did the stretch thing and did not stretch only showed a difference in hypertrophy. But no difference in strength. But I'm understanding that Mr.P is saying it makes You stronger? I was actually starting to get interested in this subject but what was written last kind of turned me off. Kind of reminds me of something JP would write, my way is the only way.

[stuke]

Mar 24, 2023 13:36:10 GMT @jackrow said:

The article Stuke posted said the results between the people that did the stretch thing and did not stretch only showed a difference in hypertrophy. But no difference in strength. But I'm understanding that Mr.P is saying it makes You stronger? I was actually starting to get interested in this subject but what was written last kind of turned me off. Kind of reminds me of something JP would write, my way is the only way.

I think it does both michael, hypertrophy and strength, only the strength will take a lot longer as building tendons is a slow process due to density if fibres. Best way as usual would be to combine methods, get the best of both/all.

[mr potatohead]

Mar 24, 2023 13:36:10 GMT @jackrow said:

The article Stuke posted said the results between the people that did the stretch thing and did not stretch only showed a difference in hypertrophy. But no difference in strength. 

"...... no difference in strength."

Ha! Yeah, no difference in strength .......... AFTER 5 WEEKS!         That's funny m8!
And, here these guys like Bioneer, Ben Patrick, Pavel, Kevin Palko, etc, are saying; that tendons/sinew require 8 to 10 times the number of days, weeks or years to catch up to muscle growth.
Gee, who knew?

But I'm understanding that Mr.P is saying it makes You stronger?

I was actually starting to get interested in this subject but what was written last kind of turned me off.

Kind of reminds me of something JP would write, my way is the only way.

I'm not saying anything. I don't have a way. None of this is my idea.
I'm just doing my best to summarize what these other guys are saying.
What they're saying is that by doing exercise that is optimum for tendon strengthening, as tendons increase in strength, more of the potential strength that in in the muscle can be used.
I can show this by quoting them (actually, I already have) if you are having trouble reading and listening, m8?

So, Kevin Palko (the rock climber), Adam Sinicki, Ben Patrick, Pavel, George Jowett, et al, remind you of JP?   That's funny too!    

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2023 17:56:26 GMT mr potatohead said:

Mar 24, 2023 13:36:10 GMT @jackrow said:

The article Stuke posted said the results between the people that did the stretch thing and did not stretch only showed a difference in hypertrophy. But no difference in strength. 

"...... no difference in strength."

Ha! Yeah, no difference in strength .......... AFTER 5 WEEKS!         That's funny m8!
And, here these guys like Bioneer, Ben Patrick, Pavel, Kevin Palko, the linked 20 studies, etc, are saying; that tendons/sinew require 8 to 10 times the number of days, weeks or years to catch up to muscle growth.
Gee, who knew?

But I'm understanding that Mr.P is saying it makes You stronger?

I was actually starting to get interested in this subject but what was written last kind of turned me off.

Kind of reminds me of something JP would write, my way is the only way.

I'm not saying anything. I don't have a way. None of this is my idea.
I'm just doing my best to summarize what these other guys are saying.
What they're saying is that by doing exercise that is optimum for tendon strengthening, as tendons increase in strength, more of the potential strength that in in the muscle can be used.

So, Kevin Palko (the rock climber), Adam Sinicki, Ben Patrick, Pavel, Jason Gallant, John Meadows, et al, remind you of JP?   That's funny too!    

Like I said in the past, You should never quote the Bible because all You do is mock people. You remind me of JP not them. I didn't read their studies because I didn't see them. I read the article Stuke posted. Have Your fun mocking people, sure doesn't inspire me to train.

[mr potatohead]

You're saying I'm like you then, although I've never said that you remind me of JP?

[Deleted]

Bye

[BigBruvOfEnglandUK]

Don't worry, m8s. Michael will be back when the Midol kicks in.

[mr potatohead]

[tomsie]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to regret posting this. Or should have sent a private message.
I like exercising, reading the bible, and believe in God. 
Mr P. you have helped me a lot with my exercise log and contributed some good information on the forum and I'm
grateful. But I believe you are irritating some people on this forum and turning people against religious
people, especially Christians. 
While it's good to be passionate we don't need to overly impose our religious views on other people,
nor totally shy away from talking about religion. Overly quoting the bile does this, and shows a lack
this shows a lack of empathy when they communicate it's irritating them and it keeps happening.
It also puts a lot of people of the bible and Christians.
Sometimes it is good to turn the other cheek and be a humble forgiving person,
instead of always arguing with people and instisting your way is the best.
I like the saying "Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary." -Francis of Assisi
In that practicing the Gospel is about building people up and often to do that we dont need 
to talk about the bible all the time that just talk. But foster connection with other people.
It's good to have faith and be passonate about a subject. But sometimes people go to far.
I think Balance in life, humility and patience are good values to have.
What we practice we become.
Sorry for the rant from Tomsie

[BigBruvOfEnglandUK]

There's no rules about quoting the bible here.
I'm not religious or an athiest. I tend to scroll past the bible quotes.

[BigBruvOfEnglandUK]

I've just re-read this thread and there's no bible quotes in it, m8s!