Got some scoliosis

[machinehead]

Anyone here dealing with curvature of the spine? I seem to have a "mild" case of this according to my doc. I've been an early adopter of the kettlebell swing (because I'm always attracted to shiny things), and have had good luck with back pain management employing the 2 hand swing. I've also used the 1 hand swing and have heard a couple of opinions on each approach with regards to back targeting. One opinion is the 2 hand swing introduces a possibility of an imbalance if one side of the back is weaker than the other as your one side will have to compensate for the other during the swing movement. As a result, the 1 hand swing is recommended as only one side is loaded at a time. Alternatively, there's the opinion that a 2 handed swing is better for muscle imbalance as the load is evenly distributed in a one dimensional movement plane reducing the possibility of torque which could result in back problems.

So, a couple of questions on this -- for those of you using the swing, and if there's back issues you're dealing with as a result of curvature, which movement have you had better luck with and are there any other exercises you employ?

On a side note, my "minimalist" exercise selections are some kind of swing, some kind of free hand squat and some kind of push in the form of a pushup or ab wheel (not sure if the ab wheel is a real push but for purposes of this description, I'm including it). I just recently moved and spent several days moving boxes, none of which were heavy (nothing over 30 pounds or so). I wound up with all kinds of back pain -- my conclusion was all that swinging and pushup-ing and freehand squatting may have helped stave off muscle soreness but that curvature really took a hit.

[carlson]

Sept 22, 2021 13:00:21 GMT machinehead said:

Anyone here dealing with curvature of the spine? I seem to have a "mild" case of this according to my doc. I've been an early adopter of the kettlebell swing (because I'm always attracted to shiny things), and have had good luck with back pain management employing the 2 hand swing. I've also used the 1 hand swing and have heard a couple of opinions on each approach with regards to back targeting. One opinion is the 2 hand swing introduces a possibility of an imbalance if one side of the back is weaker than the other as your one side will have to compensate for the other during the swing movement. As a result, the 1 hand swing is recommended as only one side is loaded at a time. Alternatively, there's the opinion that a 2 handed swing is better for muscle imbalance as the load is evenly distributed in a one dimensional movement plane reducing the possibility of torque which could result in back problems.

So, a couple of questions on this -- for those of you using the swing, and if there's back issues you're dealing with as a result of curvature, which movement have you had better luck with and are there any other exercises you employ?

On a side note, my "minimalist" exercise selections are some kind of swing, some kind of free hand squat and some kind of push in the form of a pushup or ab wheel (not sure if the ab wheel is a real push but for purposes of this description, I'm including it). I just recently moved and spent several days moving boxes, none of which were heavy (nothing over 30 pounds or so). I wound up with all kinds of back pain -- my conclusion was all that swinging and pushup-ing and freehand squatting may have helped stave off muscle soreness but that curvature really took a hit.

I'm no expert but logically I would think one handed would put you at more risk of back trouble as the load is off centre. In the same way, much as I like one legged squats, I suspect the fact that the pushing leg is not going to be vertical due to centre of gravity coukd lead to hip and/or knee trouble.

[pierinifitness]

Done correctly, there should not be any curvature of the spine when doing KB swing work.  Rather, there should be an arch with an expanded chest and eyes forward.  Your spinal erecter muscles should be locked and if you're back is not wrapped in excess bodyfat, the center of your back should look like a small version of the Continental Divide.  I don't have any experience with scoliosis so am unable to comment further.  I will say this, if you want a killer strong back posterior chain, KB swings should be included in your fitness training regiment.

Be safe.

[Michael]

I've had a back history in the past. I was diagnosed with 4 herniated discs and a fractured vertebrae in 2007 or 2008. I walk around now with no pain. But I am proactive with my back.

I start every morning with the Stuart McGill back exercises. I do 10 second holds on each rep I do. If You want more details let me know. I also do a night time stretching routine everyday which takes me about 2 minutes.

You can hurt Your back doing swings. If Your form is off or Your body may not be ready to be doing swings. If You have an injury You should not be doing swings. They will not automatically fix Your back of You're starting with an injury.

You're more likely to injury Your back doing one arm swings mostly because of form and torque than can cause because of the form. If You're ready to do one arm swings You have to make sure Your form is good and Your body is not twisting.

I have had times where I want heavier on one arm swings and would twist my back up, it was my fault because I was being macho and trying to do to much. I always remember what I read Pavel said, " 10 rep sets are the sweet spot before someone's form breaks down".

I always had great luck with two hand swings. No matter which ones You do, stay away from the mach 50-100 rep sets. You'd be better off do sets of 5 our 10. You will be pleasantly surprised with the results.

But You have to get Your back right first.

[moxohol]

I concur with Michael. If ur core isn't cinched tight with planks nothing else will cure the imbalance. Certainly not swings. Stuart McGill Big 3 are a must.

[BigBruvOfEnglandUK]

Sept 22, 2021 13:00:21 GMT machinehead said:

I just recently moved and spent several days moving boxes, none of which were heavy (nothing over 30 pounds or so). I wound up with all kinds of back pain -- my conclusion was all that swinging and pushup-ing and freehand squatting may have helped stave off muscle soreness but that curvature really took a hit.

It's possible that your back may have been more sore if you had not been doing your swings. Moving boxes of stuff is an easy way to end up with a sore back, especially as you become less careful about how you are picking them up and putting them down over the course of the day. Rounding the back because you think it doesn't matter as an item is not heavy might be ok for the first few times but done repeatedly it can cause problems. Also twisting while lifting or lowering can also cause problems even with light weight.

[machinehead]

Sept 22, 2021 16:26:07 GMT Michael said:

I start every morning with the Stuart McGill back exercises. I do 10 second holds on each rep I do. If You want more details let me know. I also do a night time stretching routine everyday which takes me about 2 minutes.

Thanks for the responses... yea, form and attention to detail is everything when it comes to exercise movements. I can't tell you how many times I've tweaked something due to some kind of additional english I added to a movement just to get that extra rep. I have a friend who's a double body weight deadlifter who "threw his back out" one day by screwing in a paper towel holder under a kitchen cabinet so there's plenty of examples to go around about what can happen when attention to detail is missing. Here's one explanation from Dan John on his reservations and approach to the one arm swing:







OTOH, here's some commentary I found from Steve Rifken on his experience with one arms vs. two arms:



About asymmetrical spine strength -- "Since the two hand swing loads the spine evenly if one is not symmetrical the stronger side can end up doing most of the work. That was definitely the base for me whereas one arm swings allowed for one side to be "loading" while the other side is "stabilizing"."



So, yea... form.

Michael -- I'd be interested in hearing more about your McGill work.

[jonrock]

I had scoliosis surgery back when I was 15 and thus my back is completely fused, except my neck.
Correct posture and correct stretching, together with a reinforcement of the spinal muscles in particular, will help alleviate the issue.
Dead hangs with dorsiflexion, lateral splits with a straight back and dorsiflexion, light good mornings, etc...those help, too.

[Michael]

Sept 23, 2021 12:56:00 GMT jonrock said:

I had scoliosis surgery back when I was 15 and thus my back is completely fused, except my neck.
Correct posture and correct stretching, together with a reinforcement of the spinal muscles in particular, will help alleviate the issue.
Dead hangs with dorsiflexion, lateral splits with a straight back and dorsiflexion, light good mornings, etc...those help, too.

I remember You said something about this in the past, Wow. I do hangs from a pullup bar also.  What are lateral splits?

[Michael]

Machinehead, this guys has some good instruction on KB stuff. He talks about the setup and stuff with the one arm swing. I've seen guys start doing swings while starting from the standing position which really is not good. If they didn't get hurt they are very lucky. Just some info for You if You get rid of Your pain first or Your doctor clears You.

[Michael]

This is an article of the McGill Big 3 exercises. I add the dead bug and a hip bridge to these. You can go on Youtube and find videos of them.

barbend.com/stu-mcgill-core-exercises/

[jonrock]

Sept 23, 2021 21:59:48 GMT Michael said:

Sept 23, 2021 12:56:00 GMT jonrock said:

I had scoliosis surgery back when I was 15 and thus my back is completely fused, except my neck.
Correct posture and correct stretching, together with a reinforcement of the spinal muscles in particular, will help alleviate the issue.
Dead hangs with dorsiflexion, lateral splits with a straight back and dorsiflexion, light good mornings, etc...those help, too.

I remember You said something about this in the past, Wow. I do hangs from a pullup bar also.  What are lateral splits?

Michael, I will do my best to describe it:
You do an ass to grass squat, then open your legs to your sides (taking into account that it should not hurt) as far as you can.
From the front, you should look like an inverted T.