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Post by mr potatohead on May 30, 2020 12:00:03 GMT
macky, I'm sorry to read that you are still experiencing a hearing issue. Have you been able to find any help or relief at all yet?
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on May 30, 2020 14:30:58 GMT
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macky
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Post by macky on May 30, 2020 20:54:04 GMT
macky, I'm sorry to read that you are still experiencing a hearing issue. Have you been able to find any help or relief at all yet? Thank you for your concern mikey. I gave it 60 headbutts some time ago and it came right gradually over three days. Like the first time, there was nothing coming out and no obvious reason why it blocked up in the first place.
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macky
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Post by macky on May 30, 2020 21:01:30 GMT
.........golfing is allowed but who cares about that. I think I know what you're saying Henry. Lovely rolling country to walk around on, and stands of trees that decorate the landscape, but are only seen as obstructions by golfers..... Fancy sticking little holes everywhere and trying to plonk a tiny white ball in them I heard some people actually get paid heaps for it. Strange world.
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MBS
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Post by MBS on May 30, 2020 21:03:45 GMT
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macky
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Post by macky on May 30, 2020 21:46:07 GMT
More confusion as usual, MBS. They sort of talk in half-speculations, but the media quotes them as saying things straight out. No wonder the truth is not known.
And it's even more difficult to speculate about a second wave, when the first one shows no sign of diminishing, let alone flattening out.
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Post by mr potatohead on May 31, 2020 8:07:19 GMT
..... I felt that distancing was more effective, ... .... What is continuously evident to me is the ever-growing estimated number of cases and deaths in the US, and because of widely reported inadequate testing, further estimates of how many there could be in total. Persons with no or very little evidence of Covid 19 infection would not have been tested, therefore they remain at large, presumably ready to infect several others while being unaware of their own infection. With more unlocking of states etc, that can only have one result and with the deep divisions apparent in America on all fronts, especially in the last few days, I have very little hope for America as a stable country economy, and returning to its previous condition in the future. Having someone at the helm who I believe is not well in the clockwork only adds to my concerns. If the present rate of confirmed cases continues roughly at about 20k a day in the US, and a 1000 deaths every 24 hours, then by election time we could see over 4 million cases and some half a million deaths, most of which could have been unnecessary if prompt action had been taken right at the start. Some other countries that took said action show the unmistakable results of their extensive testing programs and isolation measures, by their flattening out of statistics and eventual reduction in cases, the prime figure in my opinion. Those that did not, such as Sweden, Brazil, and particularly America, show only too well their sad results. macky, please listen to the video I posted about "Top 10 Reasons We're Off Team Corona-Phobia", especially the part about the failure of social distancing (I don't remember which # it was), and the #2 and #1 reasons that cover the misinformation about numbers and the success of the countries that allowed citizens to develop herd immunity. The numbers of cases and deaths is in line with a bad flu/cold season, nothing more. There is no logical reason for the declaration of a pandemic if the aim was to protect people's health.
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Post by macky on May 31, 2020 10:08:15 GMT
..... I felt that distancing was more effective, ... .... What is continuously evident to me is the ever-growing estimated number of cases and deaths in the US, and because of widely reported inadequate testing, further estimates of how many there could be in total. Persons with no or very little evidence of Covid 19 infection would not have been tested, therefore they remain at large, presumably ready to infect several others while being unaware of their own infection. With more unlocking of states etc, that can only have one result and with the deep divisions apparent in America on all fronts, especially in the last few days, I have very little hope for America as a stable country economy, and returning to its previous condition in the future. Having someone at the helm who I believe is not well in the clockwork only adds to my concerns. If the present rate of confirmed cases continues roughly at about 20k a day in the US, and a 1000 deaths every 24 hours, then by election time we could see over 4 million cases and some half a million deaths, most of which could have been unnecessary if prompt action had been taken right at the start. Some other countries that took said action show the unmistakable results of their extensive testing programs and isolation measures, by their flattening out of statistics and eventual reduction in cases, the prime figure in my opinion. Those that did not, such as Sweden, Brazil, and particularly America, show only too well their sad results. macky, please listen to the video I posted about "Top 10 Reasons We're Off Team Corona-Phobia", especially the part about the failure of social distancing (I don't remember which # it was), and the #2 and #1 reasons that cover the misinformation about numbers and the success of the countries that allowed citizens to develop herd immunity. The numbers of cases and deaths is in line with a bad flu/cold season, nothing more. There is no logical reason for the declaration of a pandemic if the aim was to protect people's health. I did listen to the video mikey. I've said before the guy talks a lot of sense, but there's a few things I want to have a better look at, besides not completely agreeing with him on one or two points I've already mentioned before. It's scratcher time here so I'll get into it in the morning.
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Post by macky on Jun 1, 2020 0:28:32 GMT
Number 10 : www.businessinsider.com/neil-ferguson-transformed-uk-covid-response-oxford-challenge-imperial-model-2020-4?r=AU&IR=T In fact, Neil Ferguson's model of 510,000 was not "dead wrong" at all. It couldn't be, because on the receipt of that model of projected deaths in the UK, IF NOTHING WAS DONE, the UK govt did an about turn and brought Lockdown in etc. Therefore there was no way that Neil Ferguson's model (aided by his team members) could be proven Right or Wrong. Bigtree has made a flat-out WRONG statement for a start. Actually his opening statement that half the population is "terrified" is also questionable, because if most everywhere is the same as here in NZ, I've never heard, nor seen a single case of anyone here being terrified. Whether one agrees re the propriety of the link, BT's firm assertion is logically wrong from the outset. His arithmetic ("2000%" etc,) is completely irrelevant, along with his roadmap analogy. Number 9 : Is full of illogical conjecture. BT actually said it correctly right at the start with his graph. The reason why Lockdowns failed in so many countries (including the US as we speak) was because THEY WERE TOO LATE to react accordingly, something I've said from the start re America. He also doesn't take into consideration NZ with its zero new cases for several days running. Why? Because NZ took action EARLY, not mucked around dithering and trying on "herd immunity" theories like the UK, or denying the seriousness of the disease as in America, no matter who was ultimately to blame. And speaking of herd immunity, there is still no guarantee that herd immunity has been successful in Sweden. There is no science behind whether someone deemed to have herd immunity is immune to Covid 19 or other possible transmutations. Not yet. BT's statement "the disease spread slowly" is simply not true. The rapid increase in cases and deaths speak for themselves. Number 8 : Is a reflection of inefficiency and questionable decisions e.g. do not resuscitate. In NZ, old peoples' homes were correctly identified as flash-points for the virus, and that was demonstrated here with a nursing home in Christchurch providing a large percentage of the national death toll. Here in South Auckland, the nursing home I've been playing piano in for a few years was locked down tight right at the start, and only close family members (tested every single time they entered) were allowed in. That is remaining even with the easing of restrictions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll carry on later. I nearly had the lot finished but lost all but the above. I'm fucking fed up proboards' sudden "editing" and sometimes total deletions of entire near-completed posts.
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Post by macky on Jun 1, 2020 3:59:02 GMT
Number 7 : Strongly disagree. There have been decade upon decade of research re the distance effects and ranges of contamination by coughs and sneezes. Okay, 2 metres might not have been determined by science, but what the hell are those scientists who are objecting to that as non-scientific on about ?
We know that someone can be sprayed from 8 metres by a strong sneeze in still air, and 2 metres is no guarantee of safety. But heck, we can't keep 8 metres distance from each other in the line-up at the supermarket etc. It's simply not possible. But given regard to care, and awareness, 2 metres can be much safer than hugging someone or looking over their shoulder while reading the paper, right ? And along with other measures, social distancing has had the sort of result NZ is currently experiencing. Those that ignored social distancing or were not aware of the rule, were quite often rewarded for their efforts with a dose of Covid 19. Wellington's wedding guests, and Queenstown's conference members were solid demonstrations of Covid spread through not social distancing.
Number 6 : No argument. We've all been informed by various "authorities" that those who are healthy need not wear masks. The efficiency of masks has also been well-challenged.
Number 5 : Emphatically agree. This is where the real scandal of Covid 19 manifests right in our faces. Why was Covid 19 treated as a respiratory disease when it should have been treated as a blood-oxygen deprivation imbalance ? Did the entire medical global profession, except for a few "mavericks" that were either threatened or punished, not have any idea what they were up against ? With all the research and late nights poring over data and technical aspects of a projected "cure", did thousands of professors, doctors, nurses, laboratory researchers and technicians around the world have absolutely no idea what the fuck they were looking at ? If anything was a prime subject for a David Icke conspiracy theory, this was it. What on Earth were they doing ?
Number 4 : Agree. An incomprehensible example of "group-think" with only one or two looking outside the square. Where does that leave the entire medical profession and their methods ?
Number 3 : Vaccines are going to be a hot topic, as more and more people fall ill from hastily-prepared vaccines that have not addressed 4 or 5, have hit the ground without proper testing, and been overtly pushed by financial interests (read drug companies). The edict that EVERYONE must be vaccined will be another disaster (see David Icke and his conspiracy theories) and at the least, the final physical loss of liberty (short of martial law) that will lump everyone at the mercy of at the least, the medical crackpottery of the ventilator thing, and the deliberate medical control of the masses.
Number 2 : Agree in principle, except for some factors. We knew right from the start that Covid 19 was going to be included in the death tolls as long as the sufferer had it. Those numbers were derived from a global agreement (including NZ) that that would be so. Therefore although not necessarily true, it would provide a level playing field at least for country-comparisons. In other words, a useful (if limited) reference to how other countries were doing, so that their methods of isolation etc could be studied, and similar measures undertaken. That is the situation as we have it right now. It also raises some other pertinent questions that will probably never to be able to be answered with any conviction. a) Those that died from or with Covid 19, could they have survived for more years if they had never contracted the virus, even with their underlying health issues ? b) Another question would be, did someone pass away from Covid 19 serious problems, or was it because of the inappropriate use of ventilators. All that will colour the statistics, and determine that the real numbers will never be known specifically.
Number 1 : Certainly not entirely agree. The actions of lockdown and subsequent economic disaster etc moving through all societies were not caused by a mathematical error. Said calculation was never proven to be wrong, because it was built on "non-action re the Covid 19 virus" therefore there was never any evidence to either support it or not. Those that were Neil Ferguson's peers (globally) all had a chance to influence their country's govts and either endorse or reject scientifically Neil's team's conclusions, based on computer models that Ferguson was well-respected for formulating for other epidemics during this century. Blaming a single British team's formula for world-wide economic disaster is an abdication of the responsibilities of another country's own scientists and elite intellectuals.
It's a convenient whipping boy for a whole lot of reasons, and has no substance in reality. Lockdowns were not the Team's responsibility, only their recommendation, therefore the responsibility rested on the particular govts' actions and economic analysis. The NZ prime minister was criticized by one journalist who is a known member of the opposite party for not locking down a week earlier, but the reason is obvious. She had to spend busy days speaking to bank managers, members of the Reserve Bank, and as many financial operators as she and her team could, in order to examine the economic consequences of the projected lockdown. That had to be settled BEFORE any decision was made. The disarray in the American economy underscores the lack of financial considerations for the middle class and the poor, in the event of an emergency. Any emergency.
It is once again confirmation of a capitalist out-of-control top-heavy system that at the last, is only favorable to the top "2%", or thereabouts. That is where a large part of the blame rests. And apparently ad hoc decisions to lockdown the US on the back of mounting criticism of an already tardy response to the virus.
Re the flu comparisons, the flu has hundreds of different strains, and the trick is trying to determine which four or five will be this flu-season's pick, and subsequent vaccine thereof. The Covid 19 virus is (as far as I know) a single untransmuted (as yet) virus which still has all the "expert" varied advice as per its period from infection to overt signs of illness. There are other serious questions which do not seem to answered as yet, such as re-infection of a recovered virus sufferer, her immunity speculation, and if someone with Covid 19 but not physical signs is still infectious to others.
All that should have been cleared up by now, but still we wait, months after the US (for one) had plenty of time to observe other countries' infections and data, should have had much data to refer back to re previous epidemics (and what worked and didn't) etc. At the last, the failures on so many levels have seen the US in the position it faces now, with all the disruption and grief.
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Post by mr potatohead on Jun 1, 2020 22:10:03 GMT
Thanks for your feedback, macky. Perhaps I'll feel like getting into a couple of those later. My complaint against Bigtree is not so much the points he is making as it is the way he delivers his message. I think he might be more effective with a less confrontational style, but, maybe not. Maybe it's just his former Progressive Liberal aggression showing.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 0:38:30 GMT
You could be right mikey. I still think BT's presentation is appropriate, at least for the seriousness of the subject. But to go off right from the start in a completely erroneous assertion is really quite a blight on his otherwise agreeable positions. It set the overall tone for the entire presentation and for some, that will be all they watch before switching off. Especially when he also pretty much ends up with the same mistakes.
It's something that either he has not given five minutes of research on, or he's been wrongly advised by his team, or he himself is taking it from newspaper sources which as we all know are pretty much the last avenues one should look for the truth. Or he is not thinking critically.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 1:16:55 GMT
Haven't gone through the 44 pages, but, based on the facts coming out of MIT, USC, Stanford, COVID-19 is overblown hype. We now know 90% of the COVID deaths are victims who were obese --some MDs have said insulin resistant, high levels of inflammation, Type II diabetics or some combination thereof. The other 10% have been the elderly and those with issues such as congestive heart failure, cancer, etc. How about the younger individuals? I listened to a Podcast yesterday were a doctor discussed a young man in his 20s, another in his 30s who died of COVID. He stated both men were found to have serious medical issues.
In comparison, over 65,000 people have died from influenza during the same period as the COVID 'outbreak', 50,000 from pneumonia.
Worse? Over a million from heart disease and type II diabetes is a $300b pandemic affecting millions of Americans and leads to the deaths of 250,000 Americans per year.
Back to COVID, what are the facts? In the US, 0.000323% of the population has died due to COVID-19. We also know there are large numbers of individuals who had COVID-19 and never knew it -- fully asymptomatic -- or had mild symptoms.
So, if you're over 70, have cancer, Type I/II diabetic, heart disease -- don't be stupid. Do the same things you would whether it is influenza,pneumonia or COVID: use precautions. Stay at home if at all possible -- have your groceries delivered. Don't eat out. Etc.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Jun 2, 2020 1:20:15 GMT
Also, we know that many states are falsely reporting who has really died from COVID. Why? The US Federal government pays out $39k/death related to COVID. The Attorney General for the state of Illinois, NY, etc., have openly stated if you die of heart disease but were found to have Corona Virus, the death will be reported as a COVID death.
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Post by macky on Jun 2, 2020 1:36:49 GMT
I've said plenty on these threads over the last few months. One thing that has been highlighted more than anything else, as far as I'm concerned.
Regarding Covid 19, the real truth will never be known.
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