TexasRanger
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A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 8, 2017 21:31:17 GMT
People who really understand Zen do not make things more complicated than they are, discussing philosophic questions and different ways to enlightenment. This is an example of Zen kong-an: Theoretical Zen teaches, “Form is Emptiness. Emptiness is Form.” Tathgata Zen teaches, “No Form. No Emptiness.” Patriarchal Zen teaches, “Form is form. Emptiness is emptiness.” Which is correct? Answer: “Three doors into the same room.” Each door has a different style and function. If you attached to style and function, you cannot enter the room. What can you do? Go drink tea – then it’s clearly in front of you: sky is blue, flowers are beautiful, grass is green, water is flowing. If you are attached to speeches, discussions, and determinations you go to hell as an arrow. Royce, Bob You start by incorrectly defining Zen, according to Zen Buddhists whom I defer to because I've got no skin in the game. So your insinuation of being a person who really understands Zen vs. what these monks shared with me shows you don't. The teachers of this philosophy state -- not me -- Zen is a path with the goal of Buddhism. That has another set of factors including the Darhma, etc....
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 8, 2017 21:33:15 GMT
"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." Objectivism is the philosophy of rational individualism."
Ayn Rand
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Bob50
Caneguru
Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 8, 2017 21:44:36 GMT
Real hell is inside us if we identify ourselves as Ego.
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 8, 2017 22:54:18 GMT
Real hell is inside us if we identify ourselves as Ego. We are all Ego, Royce. Bob. No Ego and you're brain dead. Ego = "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance."
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Bob50
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 8, 2017 23:00:51 GMT
Sorry, Texas, but I do not very worry about your monk explanations. Sometimes, there are different opinions.
Forgive me if I will answer you, by citing some Zen commentary. “If you open your mouth, you lose the Diamond and Heart Sutra’s true meanings. What are doing now? Just seeing, just hearing, just feeling, just smelling are better than any Sutras. If you do not understand that, then you must find some meat and give it to a hungry dog. This dog will teach you true meaning of the Heart and Diamond Sutras.”
P.S. If you understand this commentary, you understand what I am talking about.
"We are all Ego, Royce." Yes, now, when you write, you identify yourself as Ego.
"No Ego and you're brain dead." No, when you are in deep sleep, you have not feeling Ego.
"Ego = "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance." Correct. It is why hell is inside us.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 8, 2017 23:19:58 GMT
From what I understood Alan Watts say, in Zen, there is no Ego. It is an illusion.
However, I'm not qualified to post much valid info about about Zen. That's why I asked, "What Is Zen?".
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Post by fatjake on Nov 8, 2017 23:53:33 GMT
those interested in this kind of stuff may appreciate:- Taoism in the realm of daily life www.danielebolelli.com/downloads/taoist-lectures/EDIT - ooops, just realised you have to pay for the lectures, so you need to listen to his podcast if you want it for free thedrunkentaoist.com/Danielli Bolelli is a cool dude, an anthropology professor, part time MMA fighter and author, described by his students as "half stand up comedian and half Zen master.” He also has his own his own podcast named "The Drunken Taoist Podcast".
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TexasRanger
Caneguru
A little here, a little there...
Posts: 2,223
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Post by TexasRanger on Nov 8, 2017 23:54:11 GMT
(1) I get the meaning regarding the commentary; just a variation of a saying found in the bible, etc. And it should be taken with a grain of salt...learning comes from sharing, debating, exchanging ideas. Some monk sitting around not contributing to society and relying on the goodwill of others for food and money is no better than a preacher reading his bible or imam with his koran and making their own "enlightened" esoteric statement. At the end of the day, all these claims can be easily discounted. How? “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” (Hitchens)
(2) Wrong, if I understand what you're saying. You experience "Ego" in your sleep...it is called dreaming. Your dream is the expression of your ego...a generation of some part of our identify. We may have zero clue what a dream means, but, that ego is your dream.
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Bob50
Caneguru
Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 9, 2017 0:08:16 GMT
"From what I understood Alan Watts say, in Zen, there is no Ego. It is an illusion"
I believe if we reach an enlightenment, our Ego disappears while we are in this mental state. Ego appears again if we are back to our regular state. However, the memory of this enlightenment may change us drastically.
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Bob50
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Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 9, 2017 0:21:14 GMT
(2) Wrong, if I understand what you're saying. You experience "Ego" in your sleep...it is called dreaming. Your dream is the expression of your ego...a generation of some part of our identify. We may have zero clue what a dream means, but, that ego is your dream.
Texas, I am talking about deep slow wave sleep - the condition without dreams and Ego feeling. Only in rapid eye movement sleep, we see our dreams and identify ourselves as Ego. The next example is deep anesthesia when we alive, but we do not feel our Ego.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 9, 2017 0:26:24 GMT
Buddha is 'the awakened man'. The belief that Ego exists, disappears. .... ..... I guess.
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Bob50
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Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 9, 2017 0:30:59 GMT
I would say "The real You is not the Ego, but (the real you) is" a part of Universe as a water drop is a part of the ocean.
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 9, 2017 0:37:55 GMT
I would say "The real You is not the Ego, but (the real you) is" a part of Universe as a water drop is a part of the ocean. The real me is the Center of the Universe as a wave is the center of waves of the ocean. Now, can you help me find my pen?
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Bob50
Caneguru
Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
Posts: 894
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Post by Bob50 on Nov 9, 2017 0:50:18 GMT
"The real me is the Center of the Universe as a wave is the center of waves of the ocean. Now, can you help me find my pen?" You do not need the pen! Just move your wave.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Nov 9, 2017 0:54:13 GMT
"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." Objectivism is the philosophy of rational individualism." Ayn Rand My philosophy, in essence, is, whatever happens, I hope I'm having a beer at the time.
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