Kettlebells

[keith]

Hi everyone
Hope you are all in good spirits.

So with the title of this thread, I was wondering what you all thought of kettlebells as in muscle building and fat burning.

Any reply and thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Keith James.

[gruntbrain]

The idea of exercising with a weighted object having a offset handle is noteworthy . Construct your own such object if you don't want to pay the big money for a real kettlebell .

[Bruce Tackett]

I've never trained with kettlebells. I don't see any great advantage over dumbbells. Plus, I'd be wary of the things hitting my forearms. Just my opinion.

[fatjake]

I don't think they offer any major advantages over any other tool really, plus there is a fair amount of skill required for many of the KB lifts, which some would say is potentially dangerous. But on the other hand, many people like training with them and get great results. You pays your money and you takes your choice......

[TexasRanger]

Hey Keith,

At one point, I had three or four KBs, down to two at this point.  Just my $.02 (and I've looked around the web for some possible references for consideration):

1.  Muscle building - If you're thinking along the lines of bodybuilding type muscle, KBs are definitely not the tool you want to use. They're going to add some LBM if you have not been lifting prior to using them, but, the standard compound exercises such as deadlifts, dips, squats, bench pressing, etc., where you're using more weight/less reps will definitely generate more muscle.  www.menshealth.com/fitness/kettlebells-vs-free-weights-the-smackdown

2.  Fat burning - Not really.  KBs will burn calories, for sure.  But, most people use enough weight so that you're probably burning glycogen (sugar) and a little fat.  The purest form of fat burning, in terms of exercise, is walking, and if you're a well conditioned athlete running, cycling, etc.  (Programs like the MAF method will teach you how to get out of relying on your sugar stores and use bodyfat for endurance training.)  How about the after-burn, where growth hormone kicks in and starts doing the fat burning? Negligible...every study out there shows sprints -- which involve more intensity -- would generate more GH.  Regular barbell exercises like squats and deadlifts also work magic in this area as well.  fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2010/11/13/phil-campbell-on-sprint-8-exercises.aspx  

(NOTE: Most fat burning takes place while you're fasting...GH levels are peaking as well as glucagon since insulin levels are down.   Proper endurance training is #2.)

3.  Safety.

Bad - Many KB movements are ballistic. This brings into question their safety.  Swings, for example, generate forces that are around 6 - 10x the weight of the KB.  Nate Reifkind, an RKC, reported this in a paper he wrote -- so if an avid KB advocate wrote this, think about how this impacts your lower back.  These forces are at their peak when the KB is straight in front of you during the swing and those forces are generating an un-natural "pull" on your spine.  (Add the elbows, etc.)  Now, add the popularity of one-armed KB swings, and you're adding the torque to the spine on top of that force pulling against your spine.  More "vertical" lifts such as cleans eliminate the specific force on the back swings generate, but, again if you do them with one arm, the spine is not balanced and your exerting torque on the spine.  There are plenty of articles across the web of people who've gotten injured from KBs -- low back is the most common.  Even Pavel Tsatsouline has written articles about his injuries.
Good - For movements like Turkish Get-Ups, Windmills, etc. -- exercises where the ballistic are eliminated KBs are a good option.  So are DBs.

4.  Pricing.  If you're doing non-ballistic lifts, KBs are an expensive choice when DBs will pretty much do the job.  For the ballistic stuff, like swings, you're probably better off with the investment(s).  And I would disagree with Grunt regarding building your own for several reasons.  You will probably save some $$$, but, do you? Depending non your materials, construction, etc., the cost starts to become negligible.  Also, safety -- depending on the design you're interested in, I'd make sure it is safe since the forces generated come into play regarding the integrity of the KB.   

5.  This article by Ray Brennan is also recommended.  (BTW, Ray received numerous death threats for posting this article.  Both Dave Walmsley and I knew Ray through email and he was pretty overwhelmed at both the attacks as well as support over the nonsense...)  ejmas.com/pt/ptart_brennan_0103.htm

Personally, I'll do a few KB swings, but, mostly windmills and TGUs when I use them.

[keith]

Cheers guys

Thanks for the replies, I go a gym to go heavy when I feel like and they have a variety of kettlebells I was thinking about go goving them a go.

Keith

[mr potatohead]

I agree w/ Bruce & FJ.
In 2012, I think it was, I rented a KB from Walmart, used it for a while, then took it back and traded for a couple DBs. I had no interest in developing the skills required to do the exercise stunts so that I could exercise with it while trying to avoid hurting myself. That was the opposite direction from the way I go now. I want to only do stuff that is safe and non-injurious (as noted above - banging it into me, repetitive ballistic moves causing joint damage and pain, etc).

[TexasRanger]

Oct 14, 2017 16:18:27 GMT mr potatohead said:

I agree w/ Bruce & FJ.

What about me???

[Bruce Tackett]

My and Fatjake's replies fail miserably in comparison to Tex's very thorough and comprehensive reply.

[mr potatohead]

You posted while I was in limbo, TR. Sorry! NOTE: recent edit, mentioning ballistic movements, m8.

[mr potatohead]

Oct 14, 2017 16:32:05 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

My and Fatjake's replies fail miserably in comparison to Tex's very thorough and comprehensive reply.

Yeah, he did his usual thorough job of thrashing it all out.  

[Bruce Tackett]

BTW, Keith, since you have them available to you, why don't you ask around and see if there is someone experienced with them. You might find an exercise or two that are ideally suited for kettlebells.

[bob44]

I don’t have a kettlebell, I have 3 kettlestacks. These are adjustable kettlebells that you add the plates from a light weight set (not Olympic weight set). You can make the kettlestack any weight you want it up to a point. I have had mine for around 15 years. I am not a hardcore kettlebell guy, but I have enjoyed using this as part of my workout over the years. I do the following exercises with them: Swings (both 1 and 2 hand), Turkish get ups with windmills, High pulls, Saxon side bends, clean & press, and deadlifts and carries. I do not do the snatch with mine because of the shape and because a snatch with a dumbbell is more fun for me.

Here is one of my sample routines.
25 KS 2H Swing
20 KS Swing 1H L/R
10 DB Snatch L/R
5 TGU L/R with Windmill
10 KS High Pull
25 KS 2H Swing
10 KS Saxon Side Bend
10 KS Clean & Press L/R
10 KS DL Side Lift
25 KS 2H Swing

My main exercise is the 2 hand swing. Why? Because it is fun. I keep mine in my bedroom and don’t very often go more than a week before I get the urge to include it in my workout. As for ballistic, both of my grandsons at 18 months and 4 years old are a lot more ballistic than my kettlestack will ever be. Look up on youtube the correct form and you are good to go. Lauren Brooks is who I learned the correct form from. She does a good job of explaining and is easy to watch.

[Michael]

There is no way I can compare my insights with Texas. His insights are pretty well researched and probably based on science, good post. I agree with 3 and 4. I didn't read the article yet for number 5 but I will in a little while. By the way that's messed up someone would give someone death threats just for an opinion on KBs. I've been on Kettlebell forums and those guys are religious about their way is right and there is no other way.

I agree with number 1 except I would say kettlebells don't build bodybuilder muscles. You said,"the standard compound exercises such as deadlifts, dips, squats, bench pressing, etc., where you're using more weight/less reps will definitely generate more muscle." That depends if that's a person's goal. Alot of the Pavel's stuff is using more weight/less reps except for the ballistics. Saftey wise I would question, How much weight do You really need?

Number 2, I don't know the science but there is so many articles. Who do You believe and how do You know they're right? What is the MAF Method?

I've had on and off stints with KBs since Pavel's first book came out. I think they are fun but some exercises as the snatch should not be used long term. When I do use them I like swings,Get Ups, Press, suitcase carries, and goblet squats. I don't completly understand the science of endurance training so don't take this the wrong way. But in the past KBs have given me the best endurance for the things I do everyday. I've ran 3 days a week in the past but I would run out of gas when I did my daily task at work. And my knees took a beating. I'm trying to get away from KBs, although I do think the Get Up is one of the best exercises You can do.

[Bruce Tackett]

Oct 14, 2017 20:17:14 GMT Michael said:

I'm trying to get away from KBs, although I do think the Get Up is one of the best exercises You can do.

Gots to get up to get down. Know wha' I'm sayin'?