Mr Average
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 11:21:37 GMT
Post by Mr Average on May 6, 2018 11:21:37 GMT
Muhammad Ali did not have extraordinary physique/muscles but was an extraordinary boxer. You said that big muscles and speed are incompatible, but they are not, as proven by a boxer for example. You did a comparison between a bodybuilder and a martial artist, bodybuilders normally train for building size first, martial artists train for defence, attack fighting skills and speed, so the difference is as chalk and cheese. A bodybuilder only has to worry about looking good on stage nothing more.
As for Ali he has nothing to do with your original statement, it is not worth a debate on boxers in this thread, this thread is about building bigger biceps.
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Michael
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He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 11:26:49 GMT
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Post by Michael on May 6, 2018 11:26:49 GMT
Well one lesson I got out of all this is I will stay working my arms. Also I will not pack my bags in. I can't say if I lost fat on Darden's challenge because I have no way of measuring that. I stayed the same weight, 170lbs, throughout.
From my own experiences past and present there are some things I agree with from both of you guys. Because of that I have implimented some things from both of you into my training now. So I do thank you guys for your experiences and input. Also I will say I'm definitely not willing to put on 15-20 lbs with my past injuries and the stuff I have to do everyday.
As far as the video, I just think Nick's stuff is very interesting. Is it new? Nothing is new in the workout world. Just when you think you made a new discovery, someone did it years before. So what, it's still fun.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 12:19:35 GMT
just remember there are no quick fixes. The only time things happen relatively fast is those first few years of training. And to be honest if you train naturally without drugs or TRT, you're really not going to get much bigger than you are after a few years of good training. You'll get stronger, and the look of the muscle may improve, but size gains will be down to a trickle.
Btw I'm not saying Bruce's routine doesn't work. It's a pumping routine, and they've been used for decades to add a quick bit of size from the additional fluids drawn into the muscle. But gaining actual dry muscle tissue takes time, and certainly isn't noticeable after a few weeks.
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 16:47:24 GMT
Post by mr potatohead on May 6, 2018 16:47:24 GMT
Do sprinters have skinny legs & small muscle mass?
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 16:59:31 GMT
Post by mr potatohead on May 6, 2018 16:59:31 GMT
Bull. Jackie made consistent gains with my program. He lost size with Darden because it simply didn't add size the way mine did. And again, that earth-shattering pronouncement - if you stop working out you'll lose size. That borders on Einstein. So, there ya go, Jacko. Another naysayer. Now you've got two who are trying to convince you of the futility of making any sort of effort. You're missing my point. I'm saying the size gains were not muscle at all. Nobody gains an inch of muscle in a few weeks -- let alone on a calorie deficit. Even drug users struggle to maintain muscle on a calorie deficit. Jackrow gained and lost fluid, not muscle. Building an actual inch of muscle is a long slow process. As I said, it's at least a few years of work and will require him to gain 15-20 pounds and get significantly stronger. Makes sense to me, but people like to imagine they have achieved the magic bullet method, m8!
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Bob50
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Do what you can do, listen to your body, feel your body, drive your body.
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 17:23:19 GMT
Post by Bob50 on May 6, 2018 17:23:19 GMT
Do sprinters have skinny legs & small muscle mass?
Sprinters just have functional muscle mass needed for this specific type of sport. One example from my life. I was ~10 years in competitive freestyle wrestling and met some guys who had huge musculature and who were losers because of insufficient speed of their movements during sparing with fast partners having moderate (sufficient for this sport) muscle mass.
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 18:15:12 GMT
Post by mr potatohead on May 6, 2018 18:15:12 GMT
Do sprinters have skinny legs & small muscle mass? Sprinters just have functional muscle mass needed for this specific type of sport. One example from my life. I was ~10 years in competitive freestyle wrestling and met some guys who had huge musculature and who were losers because of insufficient speed of their movements during sparing with fast partners having moderate (sufficient for this sport) muscle mass. Sprinters are fast. They have fast muscles. They have quite large muscles. Therefore, this: is a false statement.
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 18:26:45 GMT
Post by Bruce Tackett on May 6, 2018 18:26:45 GMT
You're missing my point. I'm saying the size gains were not muscle at all. Nobody gains an inch of muscle in a few weeks -- let alone on a calorie deficit. Even drug users struggle to maintain muscle on a calorie deficit. Jackrow gained and lost fluid, not muscle. Building an actual inch of muscle is a long slow process. As I said, it's at least a few years of work and will require him to gain 15-20 pounds and get significantly stronger. Makes sense to me, but people like to imagine they have achieved the magic bullet method, m8! I don't give a fuck what makes sense to you. whiffet's just flat wrong.
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Michael
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He cuts down trees. He wears high heels, suspendies, and a bra?!
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Posts: 5,288
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 18:28:16 GMT
Post by Michael on May 6, 2018 18:28:16 GMT
just remember there are no quick fixes. The only time things happen relatively fast is those first few years of training. And to be honest if you train naturally without drugs or TRT, you're really not going to get much bigger than you are after a few years of good training. You'll get stronger, and the look of the muscle may improve, but size gains will be down to a trickle. Btw I'm not saying Bruce's routine doesn't work. It's a pumping routine, and they've been used for decades to add a quick bit of size from the additional fluids drawn into the muscle. But gaining actual dry muscle tissue takes time, and certainly isn't noticeable after a few weeks. Whiffet I definetly know there is no quick fixes. I didn't imagine that I found the magic bullet either, there is none. I like trying differant things once in awhile to see for myself, for me it's just fun. Honestly if You can remember in another post I pretty much agreed with You but I wanted to try anyway. I agree with one can get stronger and the look of ones muscle may improve. But again I will not skip arms anymore. I mostly trained before with planes of motion with little worry about my arms. Also I used calisthenics and self resistance. With Bruce's routine I felt strong as heck. His cables lend pretty well to getting stronger. While doing that routine, fluid and all, the Misses almost fell off the Hybrid Trainer when I walked by.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on May 6, 2018 19:24:40 GMT
Makes sense to me, but people like to imagine they have achieved the magic bullet method, m8! No, some people actually know they've made gains because they fucking DO IT. Some people don't live by dogma and authorities and studies. Some of us actually put in the time and effort and DO IT. Now I could let everyone know that on the routine I've been doing, I have been steadily adding size to my arms while at the same time losing weight. I could even post pics, but it would just right over peoples' heads and totally ignored by those who are stuck in dogma and what makes sense to them.
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Deleted
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Biceps
May 6, 2018 20:27:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 20:27:15 GMT
You definitely won't be adding lean muscle tissue while losing fat. I guarantee you'll lose muscle during the fat loss process. Even guys on steroids talk about the problem of muscle loss when losing fat.
I'm sure someone could build noticeable muscle on your arm routine after, say, a year. It seems a good routine. But I've experienced the same thing on pump routines. It's just extra fluids that get drawn in. They vanish as fast as they come.
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Biceps
May 7, 2018 0:32:56 GMT
Post by mr potatohead on May 7, 2018 0:32:56 GMT
Makes sense to me, but people like to imagine they have achieved the magic bullet method, m8! No, some people actually know they've made gains because they fucking DO IT. Some people don't live by dogma and authorities and studies. Some of us actually put in the time and effort and DO IT.You're probably right. What was I thinking? It should be obvious to anyone who has seen whiffet that he has no fucking clue what the fuck he's talking about, lives by dogma, authorities & studies, doesn't DO SHIT and never has put any time or effort into building muscle.
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Mr Average
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Kegal Grand Master, 8th Dan BlackBelt in Origami, World Champion Couch Potato
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Biceps
May 7, 2018 1:23:50 GMT
Post by Mr Average on May 7, 2018 1:23:50 GMT
You definitely won't be adding lean muscle tissue while losing fat. I guarantee you'll lose muscle during the fat loss process. Even guys on steroids talk about the problem of muscle loss when losing fat. I'm sure someone could build noticeable muscle on your arm routine after, say, a year. It seems a good routine. But I've experienced the same thing on pump routines. It's just extra fluids that get drawn in. They vanish as fast as they come. If you are losing size because you are losing fat, that is because it was never muscle to begin with. You mentioned of the other thread that you use creatine, well that will pump up your body, because it holds water in the muscles. So if you stop using it after a cycle, it stands to reason that your size will be less, because the increase was water and not muscle to begin with. When I first started with weights about 32 years ago, I put 8 inches on my chest, going from 34 to 42 inches and my arms went from 10 to 14 inches in 6 months. That was at 182 lbs with a 32 inch waist, I have never lost that size even when I decided to move over to a different type of routine after the 6 months. The difference with me from some other people is that I did it through eating food alone, no powders/roids/creatine or supplements etc... I have always been 100 percent natural.
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Biceps
May 7, 2018 1:54:12 GMT
Post by gruntbrain on May 7, 2018 1:54:12 GMT
Youngings with their raging hormones have an unfair muscle growth advantage . At least geezers can compete in the strength game .
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Biceps
May 7, 2018 2:58:17 GMT
Post by Bruce Tackett on May 7, 2018 2:58:17 GMT
Oh. ok. It's all just water, then. In other words I'm walking around like like a bunch of water filled balloons. Gotcha. And it will all vanish. Just go away. Funny thing, I've always read that it was blood that seeps into your muscles, rebuilding them and making them stronger. Now I find it's all just an illusion. And, AGAIN, that mantra - if you stop working out, you'll lose it all. Well, guess what? That's why I fucking workout! And I don't care if it's water, blood or soy sauce. What I do works and I will continue doing it.
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