Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 15, 2020 18:20:22 GMT
Common types of isometric are the "max effort" for a few seconds kind like trying to pull a chain apart and the long duration kind like a wallsit.
You never really hear anything about a sort of middle ground, where you do the wall sit (or maybe a plank or overhead hold) but add weight to make it more difficult. I think Bud Jeffries did stuff about this at one time but I never bought his DVDs so don't know what to make of it. But I would think, given that stance training and something similar to barbell and dumbell training are all pretty common in traditional Chinese martial arts you would see it there. I've never come across it, so are people missing out or does it just not deliver results relative to the effort?
Any experiences or ad hoc opinions?
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brothersteve
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Post by brothersteve on Nov 15, 2020 20:20:35 GMT
I've never seen/heard of the middle road times.
When I did isometrics it was around 1979-80 and tried all from 5 seconds to a minute. I felt stronger with the short times where I gave it my all as the long times didn't allow me personally to maintain the strong contraction and it degraded after about 8-10 seconds.
I have John Little's book Max Contraction where his protocol ultimately advocates using weights to contract against for a low hold time like 1 second, but never tried these. It calls for a number of people to help the trainee load the weight into position and release to allow the trainee to contract against the load. The info on max contractions from the 1950's was of most interest to me.
It stands to reason that adding weight, and/or time under tension, would make static positions more difficult and result in greater strength.
Personal experimentation may be the only way to tell if it works.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Nov 15, 2020 21:31:51 GMT
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Post by mr potatohead on Nov 15, 2020 21:45:22 GMT
I love Steve Justa's isometric info (thanks macky).
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Post by gruntbrain on Nov 16, 2020 1:26:13 GMT
Experiment with brief timed holds using resistance bands that you can barely budge ( such holds have been labeled as yielding isometrics, live isometrics, pushback isometrics)
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Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 16, 2020 20:57:56 GMT
Steve talks about different hold times but he's talking about stuff like 50% perceived effort, that's slightly different from getting a fixed level of resistance and holding that. I guess the closest thing is holding the half pullup position, being as it is a relatively heavy load anyway (relative in this case to something like horse stance).
I'm thinking of adding this sort of stuff initially to upper body training. Since I am making it up as I go along, I think something which feels tough for around 40-60s is what I am after. I will be using bands augmented with the HOOK with the added versatility of the ANCHOR.
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Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 16, 2020 21:14:20 GMT
RESEARCH:
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macky
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Post by macky on Nov 16, 2020 21:36:20 GMT
Steve talks about different hold times but he's talking about stuff like 50% perceived effort, that's slightly different from getting a fixed level of resistance and holding that. I guess the closest thing is holding the half pullup position, being as it is a relatively heavy load anyway (relative in this case to something like horse stance). I'm thinking of adding this sort of stuff initially to upper body training. Since I am making it up as I go along, I think something which feels tough for around 40-60s is what I am after. I will be using bands augmented with the HOOK with the added versatility of the ANCHOR. Then perhaps using a weight vest or other weight like a heavy chain around the shoulders/upper body is the Go for enhanced yielding iso's. Some of us have probably used weights tied around our middle to enhance dips etc. That's applicable to yielding isometrics too. Adjust the weights to match your 40-60 second holds. Actually, iso-dips would augment iso-pullups nicely I would think. Plenty of opportunity to experiment, especially with extra weights. But with halfway pullup holds, and weights around your middle (for example) make sure it's not a long drop to the floor when you've reached the end of your tether.
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macky
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Post by macky on Nov 16, 2020 21:48:53 GMT
I love Steve Justa's isometric info (thanks macky). Yes his book 'Iron Isometrics' is on page 2 of the Training Publications on this site. That book more than any other (and there's some very good books out there) felt just right for someone like me (and you, I know) who needs to be free to experiment and have fun with all sorts of hold times etc. His off-the-wall abandoning "conventional dogma", his ragged clothing, smoke hanging out of his mouth etc plus his "free-range" use of anything possible in the near vicinity as training equipment is both inspiring and refreshing at once. He's his own man, and his enormous strength is testament to "his methods". Great fun.
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Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 16, 2020 22:14:55 GMT
Steve talks about different hold times but he's talking about stuff like 50% perceived effort, that's slightly different from getting a fixed level of resistance and holding that. I guess the closest thing is holding the half pullup position, being as it is a relatively heavy load anyway (relative in this case to something like horse stance). I'm thinking of adding this sort of stuff initially to upper body training. Since I am making it up as I go along, I think something which feels tough for around 40-60s is what I am after. I will be using bands augmented with the HOOK with the added versatility of the ANCHOR. Then perhaps using a weight vest or other weight like a heavy chain around the shoulders/upper body is the Go for enhanced yielding iso's. Some of us have probably used weights tied around our middle to enhance dips etc. That's applicable to yielding isometrics too. Adjust the weights to match your 40-60 second holds. Actually, iso-dips would augment iso-pullups nicely I would think. Plenty of opportunity to experiment, especially with extra weights. But with halfway pullup holds, and weights around your middle (for example) make sure it's not a long drop to the floor when you've reached the end of your tether. Yeah I do have a weight vest I was thinking of using, I just wanted to give Shen's equipment a shout out it's a habit of mine. The wall-sit video illustrates that finding appropriate loading methods for the lower body might be hard, but if I play around with different angles maybe I can find something.
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Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 16, 2020 22:18:21 GMT
If anybody wants the Steve Justa isometric videos or his G-Force one and doesn't have them then PM me, I think I have a link for them somewhere. If you have the book and have seen a few clips of him talking through an example though it's much the same thing.
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Dave Reslo
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Post by Dave Reslo on Nov 16, 2020 22:23:30 GMT
ALSO: Can someone please scan or photograph a copy of the Super Strength Bible and put it online thank you
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Nov 16, 2020 23:06:46 GMT
Maybe this carries complex might work for you;
Years ago whenI belonged to a gym, I’d do barbell OHP lockout holds for one minute with 135 lbs. That felt good and my muscles felt worked. Ditto for handstand holds against wall.
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Post by vegetus25 on Nov 17, 2020 1:36:55 GMT
Dave,
A hip belt could be useful for adding weight to wall sits.
I know this is not exactly what you are talking about, but might be useful.
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macky
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Post by macky on Nov 17, 2020 4:51:09 GMT
Red delta project stuff is good. Plenty of youtubes to watch.
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