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Post by cas9 on Oct 26, 2020 11:20:46 GMT
First of all thanks guys for the contribution. Really great food for thought it's a joy to post on this board! Regarding pure isometrics (no movement in the joints) I have the theory that the strength that it undoubtly produced it for me, mainly is due to the fact that strengthens my liganments and tendons in a way that dynamic forms of exercise do not. But that's just my theory I can't prove it. @michael Anyway thanks that you've linked that article. I would argue that with Vrt that resistance is also "kind of" external. At least it is not imaginary, it just comes from the antagonist muscle. I would agree with bob50 that on a microscopic level the process and the feeling that I get with and after Self resistance training (I'm not good enough with Vrt) is exactly the same as with weight training. That was my point to begin with! It's just the human bodys way to react and adapt to the muscle strain. When strained enough micro tears in the muscles emerge. That are repaired thicker then. What I like about Self resistance training, Vrt and other minimalistic approaches to training for me it trains the concentration and the focus while doing the exercise better than gym machines do. It has a meditative feeling to it
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brothersteve
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Post by brothersteve on Oct 26, 2020 15:10:00 GMT
When I say power flexing there is no movement. Think of a bodybuilder flexing in peak contraction. I have done Isometrics limb against limb and with an isometric strap which I prefer Bruce's Sierra isometric/suspension strap. I mostly did what Bruce refers to as three-point isometrics but have one position isometrics which I didn't feel too fond of. Three-Point Isometrics are the bottom, middle, and top of the movement, think of the military press or bicep curl. I know some people would disagree, which I don't care, but my endurance always seemed to get really good. Whether it was muscle endurance or anaerobic endurance. If I did isometrics too hard or too long, I would have no problem sleeping, . In my own personal experience, I believe they are good for a change of pace, maintenance, getting through a sticking point of an exercise, body strength, and endurance. I'm sure someone will disagree but they are not me so it doesn't matter. I think isometrics are a good way for people to train if they like them. As I've gotten older I just get bored and stiff from just doing isometrics. Thanks, I get it. It was what I thought, but wanted to be sure.
Isometrics has come to mean different things to many people. When I think of them, I think of the Henry Wittenberg book as true Iso's. I also think the peak contraction stuff are also iso's as there is no movement, but the feel is different to me. I think it's because peak contraction makes me focus more on tightening the muscle rather than a Wittenberg exercise of just pushing/pulling hard against something.
This board is great for hearing what others do and how they do it and the results they see and feel.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Oct 26, 2020 15:52:44 GMT
To me, Isometrics is without movement. Others are more than welcome to have there opinion but they won't change my mind. I also disagree with VRT/KSHD is a form of training that uses external resistance. External resistance to me is an external object that causes the resistance. Like weights, cables, machines, limbs, etc... But if someone is of a different opinion they can have at it but it won't change my mind.
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Post by cas9 on Oct 27, 2020 12:04:26 GMT
@michael ok I understand. And what is your opinion on Self resistance exercise. Would you you say that is external resistance?
For me Isometrics are when the joint which is involved in the exercise is not moving. But with Vrt you are actually doing full range of motion exercises like for example a bicep curl. So I don't see them as Isometrics.
But get back to my point. The muscle growth that can be experienced with VRT/Self resistance is a result of micro tears that are repaired isn't it? So the same processes in muscles as weight lifting or bands/calisthenics. From your experience would you agree with that?
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Oct 27, 2020 13:01:36 GMT
@michael ok I understand. And what is your opinion on Self resistance. Would you you say that is external resistance? Yes, self resistance is using external resistance by the way of the opposite arm or leg.
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Bob50
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Post by Bob50 on Oct 27, 2020 18:51:41 GMT
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moxohol
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Post by moxohol on Oct 27, 2020 20:29:03 GMT
TY
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Post by josepz on Oct 28, 2020 11:04:02 GMT
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Post by cas9 on Oct 28, 2020 13:57:12 GMT
Thanks josepz. I will definately read into it. I'm pretty sure that the strain from Self resistance can be sufficient to trigger micro tears in the muscle fiber. A heavy sneeze can cause a muscle tear in the abdominal muscles. And in that case you have a (unvoluntary) heavy muscle contraction done without any external resistance.
Regarding the soreness you've mentioned it might only occur when a certain (high) percentage of the muscle fiber is afflicted with micro tears. I have experienced the same principle after my first visit to the gym after Covid even after years of training experience I felt the same soreness in the muscles as I've never been there before. But when training regularly I do not experience the same soreness. Even when I train very hard with weights and machines. With Self resistance I definately felt sore before especially in the shoulders. I can't comment on Vrt because I feel like I'm not doing it well enough yet
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