Hello and Isometrics (and finally Isokinetics)

[walker]

Hello, i´m new to this forum. Since i discovered this board, came here regular for reading only, now i registered. im 38 years old and from Germany. 
20 years ago i started lifting weights, Strossens 20 Rep Squat Routine, ate a lot of Schnitzels and drank lots of Milk (and some Beer), I gained from 72 Kilos to 86 Kilos ( Fat & Muscles) I didn´t like the fat, the flat was very small so, I sold eqipment, I don´t like Gyms, I train at home.
Then changed to Kettlebells (Swings and Presses). The Bells were to expensive, I changed to Pavels naked warrior and overdid it. I got a supra umbilical hernia, forcing the ascending part of one armed Hindu Push ups. i pushed to hard and to often. I stopped training for several years. My knees were cracking and popping and I got a chronical Tennis elbow right (epiconylitis lateralis).
Two years ago I started training again. I like minimalistic Approaches. Isometrics, Black Monk in the beginning, but got Headaches and Blood Pressure Problems, then switching to TSC from Drew Baye, which i like very much (the Breathing tips are great, also the section about Exercise induced Headaches). An other great Reading is John Littles Time Saver Workouts, there are sections about Minimalistic High Intensive Isometrics. A few months ago i stumbled over Koelbels Isokinator Site. The ads are a little strange, I was sceptic, but i wanted to try it. For a few weeks I used a short solid (Climbing Eqipment 5 Euros) Sling. It felt great, its intensive. After my first session I was soaked with Sweat and my heart was pumping. I used these Workouts alternating with TSC. But I wanted to know about my progress. Am I strong yet? Am I getting stronger? I bought the Isokinator Classic. Its expensive, but I don´t regret it. I like it. Minimal, Durable, the silver version looks nice and the resistance is adjustable up to 100 Kilos. It#s not a Bodybuilding Tool, but I think you can do some serious strength training with it. I try to stay with the 7 main exercises and the given rep Scheme. You can also hold several positions isometrically for time, or do it super slow for just a few reps. I the Future I think about trying Myo Reps  or Ladder Training (Dan Johns 2,3,5 or 2,3,5,10 Ladder Training) or 5,4,3,2,1. 

Isokinator Workout.pdf (195.48 KB)( There is a free app in the app store with exercise description and videos. You could do these workouts with a Sling / Loop / Belt / Rope. You can even try (heavy) expander tubes and move with a constant stretch through the exercises, too)

What´s your Opinion/Experiences about Isokinetic Training (Like Sinkram Courses or Isokinator) vs Isometrics ?

[mr potatohead]

Welcome, Walker. We're about everything here. I do some isometrics, but I'm unfamiliar with Isokinator and Sinkram, so I don't have the comparison.
If you click on the "Grunt & Shen's Workshop" button (scroll down this page) you will find some DIY home gym stuff, including isokinetics.

[walker]

Thank you mr potatohead. This Site is full of great ideas. Practical stuff, whitch i like. Most users here seem to have a lot of experience and give solid informations. I just checked the Steve Justa Stuff and the Ropercise Course in the download section.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure Jabbers used to have one of those devices. Unfortunately he rarely posts here anymore as he could have told you his thoughts. It always looks intriguing but I prefer the simplicity of things such as the iso strap.

Have you checked out Ross Enamait’s isometric ideas? His site is full of wonderful no-BS training info.

[Dave Reslo]

It looks like a fine piece of equipment, I wouldn't take the numbers too literally but I'm sure it works. The workout there is quite reminiscent of Alexander Zass's routines. I think generally compared to conventional isometrics with a chain, something that requires a small amount of movement is superior.

[walker]

@ Whiffet
Yes, Ross's stuff is great. His portable Isometric device  is like Bruce Lee's or Bob Hoffman's and allows serious training, I think.The metal springs on his bigger isometric station between chain and grips are a great idea, which makes the resistance a little more elastic and less stiff. Unfortunately he closed his forum and went to facebook.
Simplicity is good, before I bougth the Isokinator I did the exercises with a small sling, which worked fine.

@ Dave
I like, that i can now measure my progress. Due to leverage and my long limbs, I think I can use the Isokinator for some years and still have a challenge. I tend to get bored after a few Month and start experimenting with exercises, frequency, intensity, reps, sets and speed. I really dont know how realistic my plan is, to stay with the given concept, currently I' m motivated.

[mr potatohead]

Jun 13, 2020 14:13:59 GMT Dave Reslo said:

..... something that requires a small amount of movement is superior.

I think so too. I know it feels better to me when I combine no movement with some shaking, pulsing or slow, small amount of movement. 
The isometrics plus movement that I do are very simple and don't require much equipment other than furniture and surfaces. For my lower abdomen, I do alternating knees, driven forward as I stand in front of the kitchen counter, with my knee against the face of the cabinet in a strong area - not into the middle of a door, e.g. Padding with a towel or t-shirt makes it more comfortable. I also do this in an elbows down, plank position in bed that is similar to the extended position when using an ab wheel. Both of those involve a small amount of movement as I re-apply tension.

[walker]

I never combined these in the same workout. Seems to be a good idea.  But for now i try to stay with the given  recommendations. I've got often problems to keep my main workout time under 30 minutes (+ additional another 15 minutes for stretching, neck and grip work).

[walker]

@ mr potatohead
During training with isometrics only, I often was uncertain about the possibility, if the built up strength can in real life situations transferred in a wanted/useful direction. Baye says "yes", if you choose a position in the middle (90degree), but my BW squats for example didn't profit much and my Push up strength neither. I got more benefit from pulses (Justa' s iso book), where you actively push  hard with direction into the contraction for short times during a submaximal hold,  but my tendons didnt like this kind of training. 

[jonrock]

Jun 13, 2020 17:06:26 GMT walker said:

@ mr potatohead
During training with isometrics only, I often was uncertain about the possibility, if the built up strength can in real life situations transferred in a wanted/useful direction. Baye says "yes", if you choose a position in the middle (90degree), but my BW squats for example didn't profit much and my Push up strength neither. I got more benefit from pulses (Justa' s iso book), where you actively push  hard with direction into the contraction for short times during a submaximal hold,  but my tendons didnt like this kind of training. 

Use coil springs and lengthen them, it is very good and you know exactly where you stand.
Regarding Baye, the safety guidelines and position explanations are very good, the rest I don't like after trying it for months.
The long holds, particularly when used in a ascending force output as TSC, left me drained physically and mentaly, not feeling strong.
Also, the strength building of TSC is not clear, I achieved better results with short holds before using springs. Baye says many things, most of which he does not back up.

[mr potatohead]

Jun 13, 2020 17:06:26 GMT walker said:

@ mr potatohead
During training with isometrics only, I often was uncertain about the possibility, if the built up strength can in real life situations transferred in a wanted/useful direction. Baye says "yes", if you choose a position in the middle (90degree), but my BW squats for example didn't profit much and my Push up strength neither. I got more benefit from pulses (Justa' s iso book), where you actively push  hard with direction into the contraction for short times during a submaximal hold,  but my tendons didnt like this kind of training. 

I don't know much about what Baye says. He's much too technical for my brain to untangle into something I can use, so I don't pay any attention to him until someone posts one of his.
I also pay no attention whatsoever to exercising at any certain measured degrees. If I'm doing a lift/hold (yielding momentary isometric w/ freeweight), I pause where I'm feeling some kind of issue that feels like it needs to be worked, if that makes any sense. And, that's pretty much how I do any isometric.

I do like Steve Justa. I like it that he talks in general principles and encourages creativity. I've picked up some good stuff from him.
On the tendon issue, JMO, but I think that the tendon pain is a sign that the exercise is working well ....too well.... to tear down tendon tissue for rebuilding during recovery, as it should. Not going as hard or as much might help, but not sure the muscle building benefit would be as much. 
Isometrics stimulate more tendon growth response, so tendons will tire more quickly than when doing other exercises that favor muscle stimulation. I picked this up from George Jowett; using isometrics for tendon strength. That's when I started to do more isometrically flavored exercise, but I've never done isometrics or any other exercise exclusively. That would be just drudgery for me. I don't 'work' out or 'train'. I do recreational exercise and my only requirement for choosing is that I like doing it.

[mr potatohead]

Jun 13, 2020 22:12:22 GMT jonrock said:

Use coil springs and lengthen them, it is very good and you know exactly where you stand. 

Are you talking about extension springs? Yes, those give good feedback. There are also compression springs captured in a fixture so that they are compressed by pulling on the anchored fixture.
I use bands, tied in a loop or Bruce's bands doubled over. If I was going to use a spring, which I would if I set something up outside, then I'd take Pete Wagner's suggestion that the compression spring set up is best, although the cost may be more than for an extension spring. I think it's called a porch swing spring.

Here it is, "Utility Compression Spring Used for Hanging Swinging Porch Swings, Internal Clip Compression, 352 lb. Capacity"

[jonrock]

Mr.potatohead, this is what I use:
www.amazon.es/Allowevt-Suspension-Colgante-colganteAccesoriosstainless-Realistic/dp/B07W8VSBHH

[mr potatohead]

I also found these "Utility Compression Spring Used for Hanging Swinging Porch Swings, Internal Clip Compression" in a lighter resistance that comes in a two pack. I'd probably go with that to start. Maybe hook both in-line?
Features as listed:

• Combining a compression spring with 2 draw bars, allows the same performance as an extension spring without the risk of separation
  
• Rate/inch: 150 lb. maximum load: 300 lb. each
• Outside diameter: 1-9/16", length 7-1/4" wire. Size: .227"
• Finish: zinc plating

I like the idea of the internal clips capturing a compression spring "without the risk of separation". Gives me peace of mind in the unlikely case that the spring breaks.

[jonrock]

Thanks mr potatohead, I am buying a pair of these and trying them