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Post by billfish on Jul 15, 2019 19:13:33 GMT
There is so much BULLSHIT out there that it's no wonder people are confused The fitness industry is a Billion $$$$$$ business and a HUGE rip off I saw it firsthand as a personal trainer, the lack of honesty and integrity was sickening These "experts", coaches, gurus, trainers etc all depend on people to read and follow their programs so they can make those big buck$ How many times can they rehash the same old bullshit in a new package ? When I worked in the gym, there was a member who used to follow all the fitness magazines and these people and do what they recommended The guy was making very little progress and asked my opinion of some of these articles and programs I told him they were all bullshit and he should dump them in the garbage on his way out He was shocked....after all, these guys are all big name experts He then asked what i thought he should do....I told him to start with the basics and stay away from all the bullshit No supplements, no smoothies, none of the bullshit that the gym sold He did, and started making visible progress within a few weeks This also made the gym owner look bad, because he recommended supplements, the smoothies etc as well as "personal training" Another one of the reasons I was fired !
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macky
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Post by macky on Jul 15, 2019 22:13:19 GMT
There is so much BULLSHIT out there that it's no wonder people are confused The fitness industry is a Billion $$$$$$ business and a HUGE rip off I saw it firsthand as a personal trainer, the lack of honesty and integrity was sickening These "experts", coaches, gurus, trainers etc all depend on people to read and follow their programs so they can make those big buck$ How many times can they rehash the same old bullshit in a new package ? When I worked in the gym, there was a member who used to follow all the fitness magazines and these people and do what they recommended The guy was making very little progress and asked my opinion of some of these articles and programs I told him they were all bullshit and he should dump them in the garbage on his way out He was shocked....after all, these guys are all big name experts He then asked what i thought he should do....I told him to start with the basics and stay away from all the bullshit No supplements, no smoothies, none of the bullshit that the gym sold He did, and started making visible progress within a few weeks This also made the gym owner look bad, because he recommended supplements, the smoothies etc as well as "personal training" Another one of the reasons I was fired ! Yes Matey, just like yourself, I got into trouble for searching for the truth, which automatically resulted in bucking the system, exactly the same but in a different area. Without going into all the details, it resulted in having my phone tapped, (which is a bit desparate when you try tapping a telephone technician's phone) and when we were all eventually laid off, my severance sheet was stamped "Not to be re-employed".
We talk about the overt and utter corruption in other countries, but in our countries there is a sort of "inner corruption", especially in larger companies where if you don't tow the party line even when it's built on bullshit, you've pretty much fucked your career, at least as far as that company is concerned.
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Post by chanduthemagician on Jul 15, 2019 22:27:11 GMT
There is so much BULLSHIT out there that it's no wonder people are confused The fitness industry is a Billion $$$$$$ business and a HUGE rip off I saw it firsthand as a personal trainer, the lack of honesty and integrity was sickening This also made the gym owner look bad, because he recommended supplements, the smoothies etc as well as "personal training" Another one of the reasons I was fired ! Yup. My problem with the personal training industry in general is not that some don't help people, they do. The issue I have is 99 percent of them want their client to stay dependant on them. I get it, the personal trainer wants a steady income and the easy way to do that is have a number of stable clients. If I were ever to train people, it would be a pricey 8 week program. At that point they are on their own. If I can't teach you enough in 8 weeks to be self sufficient for the rest of your days strength training I'm a fuckin' failure and my business cards would say that very thing.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jul 15, 2019 23:30:55 GMT
As the article in the OP illustrates, "science" can't be trusted. One day "science" says that eggs are bad, even though people have been eating them forever. Then years later, "science" says eggs are good. Then more years pass and "science" says that eggs are bad again. More years go by and, guess what? .... eggs = good. More time goes by and eggs are bad. Recently I've read "science" say that eggs are good again! Holy shit! "Science" can't even figure out if we should eat eggs, how can I trust anything that "science" tells me? I can't. I don't. I wasn't there when the fully funded $$ study was done to verify every detail and even if I would have been, I couldn't be sure that the results were evaluated correctly. As has been stated in this thread, I have my experience to guide the way I filter info and take what makes sense to me. Our brains give meaning to things. Nothing has meaning unless we create (or allow someone else, like a religious leader, to create for us) beliefs. Then we look for evidence that what we believe is true. We sort info, looking for validation to our beliefs. I think science and faith may be the identical difference. Like Yin and Yang, one doesn't exist without the other. What do I REALLY KNOW, ABSOLUTELY? Not a damn thing. Just 2 points that I want to make about that: 1) I refer to "science" not as a canon that must be believed, but as the scientific method. I have a hypothesis, I make a controlled experiment and draw some conclusions from it to see if my hypothesis was right or not. Of course the results may be misinterpreted by the scientist, and that's why different researchers tend to make the same experiments again and again. Some conclusions may be wrong, but it's the critical, scientific approach that matters. 2) Quite often contradictions come from the media, not the researchers themselves. As someone who has a degree in journalism and tried it many years ago, I can testify that journalists are often good with words but they don't know S•H•I•T about most things. They are the ones that misinterpret the research many times. Two very thoughtful posts.
I think that science regarding engineering areas can be relied upon to have only the occasional "adjustment" due to the relative constancy of "non-living" materials and energies. The scientific investigations of Space certainly have many surprises that are ongoing as scientific instruments and methods become more refined and precise, but the basics of science and the scientific method itself are firmly established and can be relied upon at least to begin with any experiment/investigation.
The problems arise when the Mind/Body of the human is investigated in the same manner. Firstly it has to be realized that the tenets of science that have served so well in the material/energy areas were not some primordial universal truths stumbled over by Mankind in the course of his evolution, but were in fact devised by his Mind in the first place, in order to bring meaning and understanding TO HIS SENSES. Other possible beings somewhere in some part of the galaxy unknown to us may interprete the same "scientific" constants in an entirely different way, according to THEIR senses which may lie in another area of the EM spectrum according to their star/planet dictates.
Secondly, Western science fails to address the Mind/Body as one unit. Someone who is depressed and has a back-ache goes to a doctor who tells him/her to take some pain-killers and/or go to a physio for the ache, and a psychiatrist for the depression. Of course, Western scientific surgery techniques are marvellous, and have saved many a life and inproved the quality of others by the million. But in the Trad Chinese system, there is no separate branch of psychiatry because the emotions are treated at once with the body. And if the unfortunate back-acher had gone to a TFM practitioner, they could have been treated both for their depression and back-ache at the same time, IF said practitioner had determined that they were both one and the same thing, feeding off each other in a loop which he/she reverses, to the patients benefit.
Of course, no one is going to seek acupunture with a gun-shot wound, but there lies complemetary systems where one treats emergencies, and the other treats the whole person (disregarding any spiritual aspects).
The problem therefore with all these studies on diet and exercise serve only to confuse and obfuscate the motives behind them e.g better more healthy diet, more productive exercise. The arguments go on year after year, and strangely enough, people become well (usually) following either of these recommendations that have been based on science. That is what gives science a doubtful reputation, that two opposing views on the benefits of whole eggs (as mikey commented) are BOTH right and wrong at the same time.
AND, the elephant taking up most of the room in all this, is that much of scientific exercise, diet, and associated medicine has been utterly corrupted (from within again) by the greed for money and the power it brings over others. Something that Billfish mentioned.
And when it comes to the human Mind, science will always fall short because how can the Mind sensibly and scientifically examine itself without bias ? Said bias automatically entering the enquiry when the goals of the experiment are firstly determined, which has to happen under the scientific method because otherwise why are you conducting the experiment ?
That is why psychiatry is largely unscientific, primarily a consensus of opinions among pyschiatrists. Anecdotal. Certainly there are some scientific proofs and applications, but much of the Mind will always be beyond scientific enquiry.
It's precisely all this why so many exercise systems exist, both injurious and highly beneficial at the same time, all argued as to be the "best" in or out of conjunction with various diets, all having successful and unsuccessful participants.
Anecdotal (the enemy of science) evidence will always exist as the final proof of whether your diet and exercise systems work well, or not. All the rest is either confusing, or directly biased and distorted by rampant and often dishonest commercialism.
Someone who Bruce asked not to be mentioned on here again was actually right all along. Take from others what you need, and be your own trainer.
And stick to the "basics".
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Post by billfish on Jul 16, 2019 13:08:07 GMT
There is so much BULLSHIT out there that it's no wonder people are confused The fitness industry is a Billion $$$$$$ business and a HUGE rip off I saw it firsthand as a personal trainer, the lack of honesty and integrity was sickening This also made the gym owner look bad, because he recommended supplements, the smoothies etc as well as "personal training" Another one of the reasons I was fired ! Yup. My problem with the personal training industry in general is not that some don't help people, they do. The issue I have is 99 percent of them want their client to stay dependant on them. I get it, the personal trainer wants a steady income and the easy way to do that is have a number of stable clients. If I were ever to train people, it would be a pricey 8 week program. At that point they are on their own. If I can't teach you enough in 8 weeks to be self sufficient for the rest of your days strength training I'm a fuckin' failure and my business cards would say that very thing. I agree.....the owner had one woman client who had been receiving personal training for 4 years !
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Post by mr potatohead on Jul 16, 2019 14:25:37 GMT
...... much of scientific exercise, diet, and associated medicine has been utterly corrupted (from within again) by the greed for money and the power it brings over others. Something that Billfish mentioned. ...... Anecdotal (the enemy of science) evidence will always exist as the final proof of whether your diet and exercise systems work well, or not. All the rest is either confusing, or directly biased and distorted by rampant and often dishonest commercialism. ......
Yup. I do check out published studies, but I keep in mind that many, if not most, of the ones that have potential economic impact have been influenced to publish conclusions that favor the sponsor(s). If you or JZ or BF were conducting the study and publishing the results, I would feel confident that the scientific method was used and the study would be reported as scientifically accurate as possible. Since that isn't happening, I always appreciate the anecdotes that you guys provide. Personal experience has the greater value to me as the final proof.
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Jul 16, 2019 15:48:34 GMT
My add to this great discussion is a phrase I use in my business - caveat lector.
Very important in the fake news, fake polls and fake research world in which we live.
And, to be fair and honest, definitely apply caveat lector when reading anything posted at Pierini Fitness.
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Bob50
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Post by Bob50 on Jul 16, 2019 19:39:44 GMT
Tom Platz Podcast - Reps vs Heavy weights
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Post by chanduthemagician on Jul 16, 2019 21:53:42 GMT
Tom Platz Podcast - Reps vs Heavy weights Great stuff.
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macky
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Post by macky on Jul 17, 2019 2:28:39 GMT
My add to this great discussion is a phrase I use in my business - caveat lector. Very important in the fake news, fake polls and fake research world in which we live. And, to be fair and honest, definitely apply caveat lector when reading anything posted at Pierini Fitness. "Let The Reader Beware" is a pertinent caution Pierini, for the bulk of the Net, but in your case you have demonstrated sufficient evidence via text and photos over the years to be entitled to the Latin equivalent of "Let The Reader Be Aware"............
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pierinifitness
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Post by pierinifitness on Jul 18, 2019 14:28:21 GMT
Thanks macky.
I have no issues with personal trainers. They’re basically earning a living. Better than being a drug dealer or robbing banks.
At this point in my fitness, health and wellness journey, I wouldn’t hire a personal trainer but wouldn’t rule it out if I was doing something where I needed top-notch coaching.
Had the benefit of some coaching from Tommy Kono but didn’t pay for it. Also, had a karate sensei whose instruction and coaching is something I couldn’t have done on my own. I paid dues for many years.
As far as bunk research goes, there’s something to be gained by glossing over it and taking exception with the conclusions. It’s all good for the inquiring mind.
Beats wasting time wondering what JP and his disciples are doing.
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Post by mr potatohead on Jul 19, 2019 2:50:49 GMT
I don't use any time wondering about those guys. I know what they're doing. How they do it is amusing though.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Jul 19, 2019 21:41:46 GMT
I do check out published studies, but I keep in mind that many, if not most, of the ones that have potential economic impact have been influenced to publish conclusions that favor the sponsor(s). I once read an article in some fitness magazine - it was a number of years ago, and I can't remember which one. I'm thinking maybe Milo. Anyway, the article claimed that quite often, conditions in experiments are skewed to produce results someone wants to see.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Jul 20, 2019 11:22:39 GMT
I use to say, "From my experience" and some guys would say something about the science. I honestly don't worry about most studies. I may read them to see if I can get something out of them. But science or studies is not my forte. I can be worrying about all that stuff. It makes it not fun. I don't think anything beats your own and the experience of others that share.
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Post by billfish on Jul 20, 2019 14:25:17 GMT
This exercise science and the studies are kind of funny Today the study says this, next year it says that.....if I had any interest in studies i have lost it. Experimentation is my study and it's worked well for me The most important thing is to just get out there and do something Sets, reps, times, muscle activation etc etc What the hell does it really matter ? None of us here is an Olympic athlete, in fact, most of us are antique athletes When i worked in the boxing gym, I was in my mid-50s -early 60s and I was in top physical condition.....but that's because it was convenient and I had the time and I was motivated It was hot as hell in there and I worked my ass off, however it's not something I could or would want to do long term.....just too taxing on the body and the mind to continue to do those grueling workouts These days, i have enough real work to do at home and helping my farmer neighbor in the heat and humidity, so I have adapted my workouts to be enjoyable and productive. This morning I was shoveling feed for his cows into a truck bed at 6:30 to beat the heat, it was already hot and I was drenched in sweat after a few short minutes. And yesterday morning I exercised early to beat the heat. Hard manual labor can humble you.....having worked in construction, as a tower climber and tugboat deckhand, it's funny how you can be reduced to a stumbling, sweaty mess and never think of sets, reps or studies I'm not out to set any records, never was and don't care about that, in the end, what does it matter ? If I have to keep track of my sets, reps etc....forget about it, it ain't happening Now, it's keeping the workouts interesting as well as productive and I'm really enjoying these workouts, even in the heat and humidity I can see myself doing rings and other exercises into old age and that's nice, and I'm not in competition with anyone....even myself My main goal is to be fit enough to be physically prepared to handle whatever may come along and that's what's important to me
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