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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 8, 2017 20:24:41 GMT
Sounds very interesting. Mickey Free is another white boy captured and raised by Apaches. He was the cause of the Apache war, or more accurately, it was the U.S. Army's mishandling of his capture that started the Apache war. He later became a scout and tracker for the U.S. Army. Nino Cochise called him the best Indian tracker in the Army. I have read a couple of books that named various figures who played prominently in the West. It's one thing to read accounts by writers who have researched their material and history, but it was really interesting to read Nino Cochise's first hand accounts and personal associations with some of these same people. The John Tanner book is his narration to a scribe who took notes of what he said. Much insight into Indian life and customs.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 8, 2017 20:25:01 GMT
Sounds very interesting. Mickey Free is another white boy captured and raised by Apaches. He was the cause of the Apache war, or more accurately, it was the U.S. Army's mishandling of his capture that started the Apache war. He later became a scout and tracker for the U.S. Army. Nino Cochise called him the best Indian tracker in the Army. I have read a couple of books that named various figures who played prominently in the West. It's one thing to read accounts by writers who have researched their material and history, but it was really interesting to read Nino Cochise's first hand accounts and personal associations with some of these same people. Yes; Free is described as the cause or more accurately the excuse for the Apache wars. His family had blatantly encroached on Apache land and were doing other things in violation of the treaty of the hour. Of course, you also had the US Army regularly attacking the Apaches from one side based on the current excuse and the Mexican military from the other despite pushing onto Apache lands after forcing the Tarahumara further into the Copper Canyons, all the while taking away water, hunting lands and destroying sacred areas.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 8, 2017 20:37:26 GMT
The actual event that touched off the Apache war was when some hot-shot officer, I think a lieutenant, whose name I don't recall, met with Cochise to get information on the boy's capture. Cochise told him that the Chiricahua hadn't taken him, but that he was pretty sure he knew who did and that he would find out. The asshole in charge then had his men arrest the Apaches, but Cochise quickly made an escape, and then he and some others captured some Americans. So, there was a standoff. Your white guys for my Apaches. What dildo brain did then was to hang the Apaches he had, including Cochise's brother, or brother-in-law, and the Apaches in turn tortured their captives to death.
I remember that said officer was praised for his derring-do, and had been promoted to the rank of Major, and then was killed in a battle with Apaches.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 8, 2017 21:03:56 GMT
Another aspect of Nino's autobiography that I found fascinating was his relationship with Tom Jeffords. I don't know if you recall a TV series called "Broken Arrow", about the bond between Cochise and his blood-brother, Tom Jeffords, but Tom Jeffords became a father-figure and mentor to Nino. Nino commented that "Taglito", as he was called, was the only white man he knew of who spoke perfect Apache. He said his vocabulary was more extensive than a lot of Apaches'.
Again, reading intimate, first hand accounts of these historical figures by someone who was not only there, but who, himself, was a major figure in the Old West, was just exhilerating. And, Nino, himself, was a genuine baddass, having been involved in numerous gun fights and a knife fight.
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Post by mr potatohead on Oct 8, 2017 21:13:45 GMT
It was not a place for pussies.
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 8, 2017 21:19:51 GMT
The rancher was Johnny Ward whose son was kidnapped by Beto during a raid of nine warriors on the ranch. Lt Col Pitcairn Morrison sent Lt George Bascom after the raiders.
One thing I forgot: per Apache Wars, the US Army planted their fort in the middle of Cochise's territory, who was the warrior chief of the Apache Chokonen and was son in law to Mangas Coloradas, a then legendary Apache leader who trusted the US Army to do the right thing. He was slaughtered in cold blood and beheaded while under the protection in a calvary camp to discuss negotiate ongoing attacks on his people. Coloradas had trusted the word of the US Army to the point of dismissing his personal bodyguards, believing the military would honor the truce while he was in their camp.
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 8, 2017 21:27:45 GMT
Lt. George Bascom! That was dildo brain's name!
There were a lot of bona fide jerks in the Army. One general, however, who was fair and who the Apaches respected, even though they were enemies, was General Crook, who rode a mule named "Apache".
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 8, 2017 22:14:21 GMT
As a side note, when I was in NY I had a wonderful lunch with a West Point grad and history buff. We talked about about two books, The Generals and The Jersey Brothers, of note General Douglas McArthur. In both books, McArthur -- who I thought was regarded as an icon by the US Army until recently-- turned out to be a self-righteous/self-serving ass who refused, to the detriment of his troops, to listen to the advice of Army & Navy intelligence advisors and flat out lied to President Truman while pushing for the land invasion of Japan. He, in fact, hid statistics that showed between 500,000 to a million would die in the event of a land invasion. He shared McArthur was an accomplished leader in WWI, but, as a general leading a different kind of war he was out of his element and believing his own hype. Also, McArthur's father was pretty much a land baron in the Phillipines and young Douglas was raised to believe he was of near-royal blood. Another book I'll recommend is a profile of one the more modern examples of truly evil people IMHO, Robert McNamara. What McNamara turned the conflict in Vietnam into (and this is corraborated by the book Dereliction of Duty ) for the gain of his buddies in the military-industrial complex borders on sheer treason. This includes preventing generals such as Curtis LeMay from advising Kennedy against going into Vietnam as the JCS said it would be as bad or worse than Korea. The book, The Living and the Dead, starts off with the story of a man who'd sworn he would kill McNamara for the atrocities he wrought on thousands of young men. www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/1987/09/06/on-september-29-1972-a-young-unknown-artist-tried-to-throw-robert-mcnamara-the-former-secretary-of-defense-off-the-marthas-vineyard-ferry-this-is-why/05d51f38-13f5-412b-b94a-9b1e4b40bf34/?utm_term=.40b5d38fadb0
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 8, 2017 22:49:41 GMT
Wow! It figures. I belonged to the VFW in New York and I had a conversation one night with a member who was a retired colonel. He told me that he and some other officers were experts on some sort of artillery thing. I don't remember what it was about. Anyway, he and his fellow officers were sent to Viet Nam as experts to advise Gen. Westmoreland. He said that when they saw that things were set up wrong, they told Westmoreland this, and Westmoreland threw them out. I remember him telling me that they said to Westmoreland, "Hey. You're doing this all wrong."
Again, I just don't remember what the process or whatever it was was, but I just remember it having something to do with artillery.
BTW, I've always heard that the Japanese loved MacArthur. He was sent to Japan and was given carte blanche to do whatever he thought right. For five years he was essentially sole ruler of Japan. It was his decision not to prosecute the emperor, but to keep him in his royal position. He broke up the Japanese feudal system and essentially wrote their constitution.
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Post by BigBruvOfEnglandUK on Oct 9, 2017 6:14:49 GMT
Didn't Swobbydobbydoo land in the US just as all that O.K. Corral stuff was happening?
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 9, 2017 21:37:08 GMT
Didn't Swobbydobbydoo land in the US just as all that O.K. Corral stuff was happening? He did! And the significance thereof is staggering!
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Post by jabbers on Oct 9, 2017 23:12:44 GMT
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TexasRanger
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Post by TexasRanger on Oct 9, 2017 23:18:13 GMT
Didn't Swobbydobbydoo land in the US just as all that O.K. Corral stuff was happening? Swobby's daddy had him pokin' the pigs in Omaha, Nebraska...not too far from Dodge City where the Earps and Bat Masterson were cleaning up some corrupt politicians during their second major and last jaunt into the area.
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Post by jabbers on Oct 9, 2017 23:23:08 GMT
Lucky i I behaved myself I would never got out of NY
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Post by Bruce Tackett on Oct 10, 2017 3:21:04 GMT
That looks like a poster for a porn movie.
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