And now, a breaking video

[pierinifitness]

[macky]

Crazy nonsense.

[mrdave100]

Yeah but can he dance the night away

[macky]

One wonders if it's the pain that's making him dance around.  Why deform your hands and shag your nervous system when you can buy a hammer for a few dollars ?

[macky]

Jocko The Smasher :  There !   Six bricks broken in half with the palm of my hand !    Martial arts, baby !

Casual observer :  I can do that easy. 

JTS :  Go on then. I dare you !

CO produces a hammer from nowhere and with a wallop shatters six freshly set bricks into little pieces. 

JTS : Hey !  You used a hammer !

CO : Well I never said I was stupid enough to use my hand, did I ? 

JTS : You f..kin' cheat !  I oughta punch your lights out ! 

CO :  Really ?  Remember I've still got the hammer in my hand.  Is your head harder than six bricks ?   

[Michael]

Bricks don't hit back.

[mr potatohead]

I'm gonna file his fist feats under the 'no way' heading along with burpees.

[macky]

And also file it under Temporary "Martial Artist".   Give him them a few years and their nervous system will be shattered, hands deformed, useless for anything at all.   Why ?  Being stupid, that's why. 

[Dave Reslo]

Apr 5, 2021 13:05:08 GMT macky said:

Why ?

He's almost certainly a street entertainer with no other source of income.

[macky]

Well he'll have a lot of cleaning up the pavement to do after his performances.  I don't think he would have much left in the hat after he pays for all those bricks.

[macky]

This is the reason why there's a difference in modest massage/tempering the hands, and bashing them into deformity.  

[pierinifitness]

What little I know about Iron Palm training, it’s a safer and sensible approach to hand conditioning with a very long ramp up.

The guy in the video is an odd lot and definitely not a role model. His circus act performances may be his only claim to fame in his life.

[macky]

Apr 7, 2021 11:16:57 GMT pierinifitness said:

What little I know about Iron Palm training, it’s a safer and sensible approach to hand conditioning with a very long ramp up.

The guy in the video is an odd lot and definitely not a role model. His circus act performances may be his only claim to fame in his life.

I don't know a great deal about hand conditioning either.  Bruce Tegner maintained for a while that hand conditioning was archaic,  but later changed his mind towards moderate hand conditioning, as long as it was kept at a reasonable level i.e. the hands were not outwardly changed in appearance. 

Wing Chun wooden dummies condition the mitts to a certain extent,  and even boxing's bag work can get the fists and arms used to continuous impact.   The level to which the guy(s) in the original post on here took things is ridiculous.  What do they think they can do better, with mitts that are so badly deformed ?   They have to hit their opponent first, AND avoid counter-blows. 

No good having club-like hands when all you hit is air.  

In ancient times hand conditioning to the extent the fingers could penetrate bamboo samurai armour,  and pound a helmeted head with the fist was the prime reason for unarmed citizens to practice karate ("empty hand") conditioning, they not being allowed to have weapons.  There would be similar reasons in China. 

I think with the advent of guns etc,  those days have gone,  and anyway it's not hard for a practiced clout to knock someone down if not, out.  Then you can take to your scrapers, hopefully. 

Internal methods also make excessive hand conditioning obsolete.  Meditative chi kung methods as per leading the chi/energy to the hands will enable even the delicate hand of a petite lady to break a brick.   Sufficient training and guidance is all that is required.  Look up Wong Kiew Kit's material on the Net, and there's Amazon to kindle some of his books.   

[stuke]

Apr 7, 2021 21:06:11 GMT macky said:

Apr 7, 2021 11:16:57 GMT pierinifitness said:

What little I know about Iron Palm training, it’s a safer and sensible approach to hand conditioning with a very long ramp up.

The guy in the video is an odd lot and definitely not a role model. His circus act performances may be his only claim to fame in his life.

I don't know a great deal about hand conditioning either.  Bruce Tegner maintained for a while that hand conditioning was archaic,  but later changed his mind towards moderate hand conditioning, as long as it was kept at a reasonable level i.e. the hands were not outwardly changed in appearance. 

Wing Chun wooden dummies condition the mitts to a certain extent,  and even boxing's bag work can get the fists and arms used to continuous impact.   The level to which the guy(s) in the original post on here took things is ridiculous.  What do they think they can do better, with mitts that are so badly deformed ?   They have to hit their opponent first, AND avoid counter-blows. 

No good having club-like hands when all you hit is air.  

In ancient times hand conditioning to the extent the fingers could penetrate bamboo samurai armour,  and pound a helmeted head with the fist was the prime reason for unarmed citizens to practice karate ("empty hand") conditioning, they not being allowed to have weapons.  There would be similar reasons in China. 

I think with the advent of guns etc,  those days have gone,  and anyway it's not hard for a practiced clout to knock someone down if not, out.  Then you can take to your scrapers, hopefully. 

Internal methods also make excessive hand conditioning obsolete.  Meditative chi kung methods as per leading the chi/energy to the hands will enable even the delicate hand of a petite lady to break a brick.   Sufficient training and guidance is all that is required.  Look up Wong Kiew Kit's material on the Net, and there's Amazon to kindle some of his books.   

Do you believe that last part?
I remember reading American Shaolin, the monks there onviously practiced a lot with chi, yet the ones who perfomed breaks etc had relatively deformed hands, forehead etc, ie nerves damaged etc. Seems the chi work did not prevent the physical damage.

[macky]

Apr 8, 2021 17:13:17 GMT stuke said:

Apr 7, 2021 21:06:11 GMT macky said:

I don't know a great deal about hand conditioning either.  Bruce Tegner maintained for a while that hand conditioning was archaic,  but later changed his mind towards moderate hand conditioning, as long as it was kept at a reasonable level i.e. the hands were not outwardly changed in appearance. 

Wing Chun wooden dummies condition the mitts to a certain extent,  and even boxing's bag work can get the fists and arms used to continuous impact.   The level to which the guy(s) in the original post on here took things is ridiculous.  What do they think they can do better, with mitts that are so badly deformed ?   They have to hit their opponent first, AND avoid counter-blows. 

No good having club-like hands when all you hit is air.  

In ancient times hand conditioning to the extent the fingers could penetrate bamboo samurai armour,  and pound a helmeted head with the fist was the prime reason for unarmed citizens to practice karate ("empty hand") conditioning, they not being allowed to have weapons.  There would be similar reasons in China. 

I think with the advent of guns etc,  those days have gone,  and anyway it's not hard for a practiced clout to knock someone down if not, out.  Then you can take to your scrapers, hopefully. 

Internal methods also make excessive hand conditioning obsolete.  Meditative chi kung methods as per leading the chi/energy to the hands will enable even the delicate hand of a petite lady to break a brick.   Sufficient training and guidance is all that is required.  Look up Wong Kiew Kit's material on the Net, and there's Amazon to kindle some of his books.   

Do you believe that last part?
I remember reading American Shaolin, the monks there onviously practiced a lot with chi, yet the ones who perfomed breaks etc had relatively deformed hands, forehead etc, ie nerves damaged etc. Seems the chi work did not prevent the physical damage.

I've read from Wong Kiew Kit's (and other sources) that what passes for Shaolin Kung Fu these days in China (and elsewhere) is Wu Shu, i.e. acrobatic flashy techniques and excessive hand-hardening etc.

I have a problem with so-called "hard chi kung" as I believe that while chi is always present in anything we do (otherwise you're dead), the emphasis on muscular strength and force is counter-productive to the development of chi via chi kung.   Certainly some momentary tension may be required in drills such as the Ba Duan Jin set e.g. at the end of a punch in the punching drill,  the continuous tensed movements of various drills such as the Iron Wire set, although valuable from the combat-tempering aspect, do not promote chi enhancement in itself, beyond simple repetition.    

It is perfectly correct to question certain claims re chi kung and "kung fu", especially with the amount of outright fraudulent bullshit on the Net these days, and the excessive nonsense of the breaking practitioners in the original post of this thread. 

But there comes a time where research and personal experience leave some bits of truth that remain amongst the garbage.  While I haven't attempted any breaking at all (being more interested in mental aspects of chi kung)  Wong Kiew Kit has ongoing classes over the world, and his books are perfectly understandable with chi kung drills that definitely improve the health and strength of a regular practitioner.  

In a relaxed manner,  NOT tensed.  And I've never seen anything on the Net so far, questioning him.  And the Zhan Zhuang standing postures of just about all forms of martial art are notable for bringing a great difference to the practitioner's martial power, the postures themselves performed in a relaxed manner, concentration on the Lower Dantian.   

Wong's further accounts of his students that are up to higher levels gathering together and trying out their breaking skills (plus the techniques for breaking a brick in his books), plus his own experience in the days when he was under tutelage himself,  form a definite protocol that one can try for themselves re brick-breaking, and like any training "hard or soft" if done in the prescribed manner and with sufficient regular practice, will bring the desired results. 

Part of the "gatherings" that Wong describes is the breaking of a bottom brick in a stack or two or three, while leaving the top ones intact.  That may be able to be explained by science, but it is still a notable technique inasmuch as it will almost certainly result in a punch to the chest doing internal damage to the organs while leaving little evidence on the surface. 

As a personal example of chi (bio-electricity) training,  I've posted more than once training the Yi Jin Ching 12-position open palm relaxed set as described by Dr Yang Jwing-Ming for a few months in early 90's, and breaking the handle of a good quality pair of side cutters on the job, that I had used for years, in two places.   Without any strength training (hand-grips etc) whatsoever. 

And when I trained this set of drills, if I was nearer than about 15-20 feet from a TV set, it would turn off by itself on remote.  Or if it was off, on remote, turn on.  

I certainly don't expect anybody here to believe that, but it was witnessed as it happened by both my wife and daughter.  On one occasion my wife was watching a program and the TV turned off by itself while I was training this set in the next room. 

At the last,  don't believe anything.  Try it out for yourself.  Make sure you are not tensing up.  Do whatever set of chi kung you choose properly and regularly and see what you get out of it.  Use your Mind primarily, not your muscular strength.   Then form your opinions accordingly.