Progressive Resistance

[stuke]

I gave up on progtessive resistance long ago. That's notcto say I don't work hard, and test myself with big (for me) weights, but I don't agree with a long term progressive resistance approach for me at my stage in the game.

The way I figure it, at 45 with the odd joint pain and some wear and tear, with lesser recovery ability thab say 25 years ago and less motivation to lift as much as I can, why would I want or expect to be able to outlift a younger, more motivates veraion of myself?

The problem with constantly trying to lift more and more is it gets risky. It also gets harder to recover from, I think the body finds ways to squeeze a little more out, but it isn't always down to more muscle.

They say yiu don't need to go to absolute failure to stimulate growth, I figure it ahould be the same with strength which is why guys like Andy Bolton did not do max weights in the gym. He was the first man to deadlift 1000lbs, but he did not lift that in the gym at any point.

If we're honest, I would bet the vast majority of us here, if we have been lifting a number of years, have not really got any bigger muscles once we passed the first few years, perhaps it is the same with strength

None of this is peddling slacking off, just training more as an investment for outlr later years, enjoying it more, being less structured and easier to please in the gym.

[pierinifitness]

stuke, I use a progressive resistance approach with my training which does not include barbell or dumbbell training. I agree with what you said. I use progressive resistance to make progress in relation to where I’m at now, not where I’ve been. There’s always room for progress in relation to where we currently are and progressive resistance is a proven approach in achieving progress.

[Bruce Tackett]

Sept 19, 2019 16:28:57 GMT pierinifitness said:

...progressive resistance is a proven approach in achieving progress.

That's why I continue with PR. Nothing else builds muscle as hard or as big.

[stuke]

Sept 19, 2019 22:04:55 GMT Bruce Tackett said:

Sept 19, 2019 16:28:57 GMT pierinifitness said:

...progressive resistance is a proven approach in achieving progress.

That's why I continue with PR. Nothing else builds muscle as hard or as big.

Yes, it is a good method, but it has a limited lifespan.
If you can, say, overhead press 180 poinds, and this is a balls to the wall max, can you hope to increase this by even just half a pou d a week? I don't think so, not for long at least, particularly for those of us who reside in middle age territory - or beyond!

I could press 180 pounds, slighly more at my best, and at around 160 pounds bodyweight. I was younger and more motivated, better recovery and more hair for what its worth! But this, seemed to be my upper ceiling, form would drift a little, and just a little drift with max loads can bring on injury. Cycling weights did not let me beat my best and back fhen I would psyche up like a nutcase hahaha.

Like was said earlier, don't base things on previous bests, good advice and I'm not, but pushing a lift like that to abzolute failure does me no good. I still do now and the of course, and every workout is a the very least close enough that another rep would be doubtful. Weights eben close to my previous best feel wrong on this lift and many others, I listen to my bkdy, I work hard but puahing the weight higher each session is not the best way for me on most lifts.

If I can't really expect to push higher and higher and stay free of most injuries, and if at 45 I can't realistically expect to put on poinds of new muscle, why would I focus so much on orogressive resistance?

I could switch exercises, work up each session then when I hit the riif, swutch agaon, but am I really progressing in terms of muscle, or am I learning (or relearning) the movement, getting more efficient, a better line, recruiting more fiberz etc? Is, it more of a sjikl, becausecmy base strength has been well established for years? If it is, nothing wrong with that, but not entirely necessary, and while I am improving on my new exercise, you can bet when I go back to overhead press I will have to marginally relearn that... Is this true progression?

So what else then? More sets - more volume, shorter rests, muscle confusion, just working and working hard. I Would bet that this approach for many of us will give very very similar resulta for us older guys to regimented routines. I am not againat progression at all, but it is a finite mechanism and there are other ways to get some good results out of training.

[Deuce Gunner]

You may want to read this stuke:


www.t-nation.com/training/training-clarity-one-goal-at-a-time

[stuke]

Sept 20, 2019 20:22:48 GMT Deuce Gunner said:

You may want to read this stuke:


www.t-nation.com/training/training-clarity-one-goal-at-a-time

Thanks, had a read and a decent enough article. I don't want to be seen here as the anti progressive resistance man, I'm not at all.
Afticles like that are good for motivating people and provide some good instruction, but these people who tell you high rep heavy squats will pile on the poinds and this and that, I say maybe, maybe not. I've trained with world level powerlifters who outlifted just about everyone, but like other, they hot their peak and years later, they were still in the same ball park.
I remember being puzzled at the gym when overhead pressing 154 pounds for 5 or 6 reps at 154 pounds bodyweight, and seeing a guy who out weighed me by 50 plus pounds using 88 pounds and it looked harder than my set. He had much bigger muscles than me... Ha, niw I wonder where I am going with this... Oh yeah, I am juat sayibg that this progressive resistance gave me strength and some muscle, but it bottomed out and az with most people I have seen over the years, I reached a point and couldnt really go any further.

There are still plenty of goals for me and I love to train hard and will continue to do so, I mean I did full chin uo with 90 poundds hanging from me yesterday, not a PB but I was happy with it, but I do what I feel like now and use what feels heavy or just right for me at the time.

[Michael]

Stuke this is an interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up. What Pierini said here pretty much sums it up for me," I use progressive resistance to make progress in relation to where I’m at now, not where I’ve been." It's pretty funny, I have a knack for picking up odd objects. But I'm about 20lbs away from the size KB I pressed about 12-13 years ago. No matter what type of training I did I always felt strong for what I do. The only time I ever lost strength for picking up heavy things(for me) was when I did away with progressive resistance altogether. Anyhow, thanks for sharing Your insights.

[Mr Average]

Well for someone like me who will be 52 years young in a few months, I do not agree that as we age our recovery ability becomes less. I have no niggling aches or pains and no joint problems. I can work my body for 40 hours a week without problems and still keep up with guys 30 odd years younger than me. As for progressive resistance my body has become accustomed to my workload and for the last few months I no longer ache after a days work, so I would say that of course it works even as we get older.

[stuke]

Sept 22, 2019 0:52:06 GMT Mr Average said:

Well for someone like me who will be 52 years young in a few months, I do not agree that as we age our recovery ability becomes less. I have no niggling aches or pains and no joint problems. I can work my body for 40 hours a week without problems and still keep up with guys 30 odd years younger than me. As for progressive resistance my body has become accustomed to my workload and for the last few months I no longer ache after a days work, so I would say that of course it works even as we get older.

I havent written myself off, I train hard anf pretty heavy most of the time, but rathef than constantly trying to add weight, I train instinctively. I am glad you are in such good shape, I hope to be too when I hit 52, and 62 etc! Do you add weight to the, bar consistantly? So if you bench say 250, sdo you expect to bench 30 within a year or two? What about 5 years, will you be benching 350 to 400 or more? Ghat is onky a very very small weight increase each session, but realistically it isnt going to happen.
I believe when we add weight to the bar at an older age, it is more adaptations to the movement that allow is to add wreight as opposed to much new muscle.

[stuke]

Bloody hell, I apologise for the spelling, it is when I use my phone to post.

I think we have to look at the word progressive, perhaps a better term for most of us would be present progression, as in if we lift 200 pounds today, compared to 195 last eeek, we have progressed from that workout, but if we did 220 pounds 10 years ago, then in a manner of speaking we have not progressed at all, just lessened the gap so to speak.
On another forum, a guy is in his eafly 50s and has been methodically logging his progressive resistance workouts for years and it is fair to say he is lifting more thab he has ever done on at least some lifts, and although he has a great physique, he is still around the same weight he was decades ago.
Acknowledging the genetic limit is not to say we should give up, not at all and there are always improvements to be made, but I don't really think many - if any - of us in our 40s and 50s who have lifted hard for decades will be lifting more now than we did 20 years ago, or have bigger muscles.

I could be wrong and if one if you tells me I am, I will be happy to be proveb wrong!

[mr potatohead]

Since this thread is about Progressive Resistance Exercise, perhaps it will help if I drop this here:

Methods of Progressive Resistance

There are many ways to achieve progressive resistance:

1. Increase the weight you're lifting. Do the same number of reps and sets each week, but increase the weights. You should only increase the weights by 2 percent to 10 percent of your RM load at a time. The RM load is the maximum amount of weight you can lift one time. For example, if you can lift 50 pounds once, you should only increase the weight you lift with each rep by 2 to 5 pounds each week. You don't want to overdo the increase in the load. (This is what stuke mentioned in the OP: "The problem with constantly trying to lift more and more is it gets risky.")

2. Increase the number of reps. Use the same weight for each workout, but increase the reps each week.

3. Decrease the number of reps. Intermediate to advanced trainers can lift heavier weights for fewer reps, known as heavy loading. When doing heavy loading, you increase the rest time between sets to three to five minutes.

4. Increase the number of sets. A typical weight training workout for people with the goal to lose weight will involve about two to four sets of each exercise. If you're a beginner, one set may be enough to build strength and endurance but, as you get stronger, you'll want to eventually work your way up to two to four sets, resting about 20 seconds to 60 seconds, depending on how heavy you're lifting.

5. Shorten the rest between the sets. If you're doing straight sets, e.g. three sets of squats or three sets of pushups, you'll typically have a rest of about 10 seconds to 60 seconds between sets. One way to challenge your body and increase intensity is to shorten the rest between sets. If your form starts to suffer, increase the rest period or drop a little weight.

6. Lengthen the time under tension. This is how long your muscle fibers are under stress. Use the same weight and reps, but slow down the exercise. For example, one count to lift the weight, three counts to lower the weight.

Number of Workouts
If you have been doing strength workouts two to three days per week for six months, you have reached the intermediate level. You may want to add another day per week to your workout schedule to challenge your body more.

IMO, Mr A is not talking about Progressive Resistance as outlined above. He's talking about his body adapting to a daily workload without additional challenge after it has adapted.

[stuke]

Sept 22, 2019 14:03:45 GMT mr potatohead said:

Since this thread is about Progressive Resistance Exercise, perhaps it will help if I drop this here:

Methods of Progressive Resistance

There are many ways to achieve progressive resistance:

1. Increase the weight you're lifting. Do the same number of reps and sets each week, but increase the weights. You should only increase the weights by 2 percent to 10 percent of your RM load at a time. The RM load is the maximum amount of weight you can lift one time. For example, if you can lift 50 pounds once, you should only increase the weight you lift with each rep by 2 to 5 pounds each week. You don't want to overdo the increase in the load. (This is what stuke mentioned in the OP: "The problem with constantly trying to lift more and more is it gets risky.")

2. Increase the number of reps. Use the same weight for each workout, but increase the reps each week.

3. Decrease the number of reps. Intermediate to advanced trainers can lift heavier weights for fewer reps, known as heavy loading. When doing heavy loading, you increase the rest time between sets to three to five minutes.

4. Increase the number of sets. A typical weight training workout for people with the goal to lose weight will involve about two to four sets of each exercise. If you're a beginner, one set may be enough to build strength and endurance but, as you get stronger, you'll want to eventually work your way up to two to four sets, resting about 20 seconds to 60 seconds, depending on how heavy you're lifting.

5. Shorten the rest between the sets. If you're doing straight sets, e.g. three sets of squats or three sets of pushups, you'll typically have a rest of about 10 seconds to 60 seconds between sets. One way to challenge your body and increase intensity is to shorten the rest between sets. If your form starts to suffer, increase the rest period or drop a little weight.

6. Lengthen the time under tension. This is how long your muscle fibers are under stress. Use the same weight and reps, but slow down the exercise. For example, one count to lift the weight, three counts to lower the weight.

Number of Workouts
If you have been doing strength workouts two to three days per week for six months, you have reached the intermediate level. You may want to add another day per week to your workout schedule to challenge your body more.

IMO, Mr A is not talking about Progressive Resistance as outlined above. He's talking about his body adapting to a daily workload without additional challenge after it has adapted.

Yes, fair point and I agree with everything in your thread. I think I was fixated on the notuon of constantly adding the pounds only. You are correct.

[Mr Average]

Sept 22, 2019 14:03:45 GMT mr potatohead said:

Since this thread is about Progressive Resistance Exercise, perhaps it will help if I drop this here:

Methods of Progressive Resistance

There are many ways to achieve progressive resistance:

1. Increase the weight you're lifting. Do the same number of reps and sets each week, but increase the weights. You should only increase the weights by 2 percent to 10 percent of your RM load at a time. The RM load is the maximum amount of weight you can lift one time. For example, if you can lift 50 pounds once, you should only increase the weight you lift with each rep by 2 to 5 pounds each week. You don't want to overdo the increase in the load. (This is what stuke mentioned in the OP: "The problem with constantly trying to lift more and more is it gets risky.")

2. Increase the number of reps. Use the same weight for each workout, but increase the reps each week.

3. Decrease the number of reps. Intermediate to advanced trainers can lift heavier weights for fewer reps, known as heavy loading. When doing heavy loading, you increase the rest time between sets to three to five minutes.

4. Increase the number of sets. A typical weight training workout for people with the goal to lose weight will involve about two to four sets of each exercise. If you're a beginner, one set may be enough to build strength and endurance but, as you get stronger, you'll want to eventually work your way up to two to four sets, resting about 20 seconds to 60 seconds, depending on how heavy you're lifting.

5. Shorten the rest between the sets. If you're doing straight sets, e.g. three sets of squats or three sets of pushups, you'll typically have a rest of about 10 seconds to 60 seconds between sets. One way to challenge your body and increase intensity is to shorten the rest between sets. If your form starts to suffer, increase the rest period or drop a little weight.

6. Lengthen the time under tension. This is how long your muscle fibers are under stress. Use the same weight and reps, but slow down the exercise. For example, one count to lift the weight, three counts to lower the weight.

Number of Workouts
If you have been doing strength workouts two to three days per week for six months, you have reached the intermediate level. You may want to add another day per week to your workout schedule to challenge your body more.

IMO, Mr A is not talking about Progressive Resistance as outlined above. He's talking about his body adapting to a daily workload without additional challenge after it has adapted.

Thank you, as you and other members on here know I am a manual worker. So what I do and have done is not the same a going into a gym and staying in the same position and doing reps. Yes I do use and shift weight and a lot of the time I do not know how much until it is put on a set of scales, so for example if I need to pull and push loaded pallets, I don't know the weight until they are weighed. So I move a pallet and then find out it weighs 372 kg for example, or if I am humping boxes I do not always take count of the total weight I have moved, I just get on with it.

I know it might not sound as impressive as a 300 lbs bench press, 400 lbs squat and a 500 lbs deadlift, but it keeps me fit. I am not saying that I could suddenly bench press, squat or deadlift anything impressive with a barbell, because I have not done those types of movements for a lot of years. 

[stuke]

Sept 23, 2019 0:13:09 GMT Mr Average said:

Sept 22, 2019 14:03:45 GMT mr potatohead said:

Since this thread is about Progressive Resistance Exercise, perhaps it will help if I drop this here:

IMO, Mr A is not talking about Progressive Resistance as outlined above. He's talking about his body adapting to a daily workload without additional challenge after it has adapted.

Thank you, as you and other members on here know I am a manual worker. So what I do and have done is not the same a going into a gym and staying in the same position and doing reps. Yes I do use and shift weight and a lot of the time I do not know how much until it is put on a set of scales, so for example if I need to pull and push loaded pallets, I don't know the weight until they are weighed. So I move a pallet and then find out it weighs 372 kg for example, or if I am humping boxes I do not always take count of the total weight I have moved, I just get on with it.

I know it might not sound as impressive as a 300 lbs bench press, 400 lbs squat and a 500 lbs deadlift, but it keeps me fit. I am not saying that I could suddenly bench press, squat or deadlift anything impressive with a barbell, because I have not done those types of movements for a lot of years. 

Who cares if it is on a bar, what you do is defintely going to be impressive, and much more'real world'than bench preas etc